Author Topic: Halachic Source for no music during sefira  (Read 8303 times)

Offline imayid2

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Re: Halachic Source for no music during sefira
« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2022, 11:07:00 PM »
Nowhere in the Achronim did it asser people mimicking musical instruments...
Did people mimic musical instruments in the times of the achronim?

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Re: Halachic Source for no music during sefira
« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2022, 11:24:43 PM »
it did not exist

Did people mimic musical instruments in the times of the achronim?

Are you guys claiming peoples voices changed and they couldn't mimic live music in the times of the Rishonim and Shulchan Aruch? Or it somehow can be done in recording but not in live?

What a stretch to come up with a way to extend a minhag and find another Issur
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline aygart

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Re: Halachic Source for no music during sefira
« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2022, 11:26:17 PM »
Are you guys claiming peoples voices changed and they couldn't mimic live music in the times of the Rishonim and Shulchan Aruch? Or it somehow can be done in recording but not in live?

What a stretch to come up with a way to extend a minhag and find another Issur
I don't see anything new here
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline imayid2

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Re: Halachic Source for no music during sefira
« Reply #43 on: July 21, 2022, 11:27:25 PM »
Are you guys claiming peoples voices changed and they couldn't mimic live music in the times of the Rishonim and Shulchan Aruch? Or it somehow can be done in recording but not in live?

What a stretch to come up with a way to extend a minhag and find another Issur
Are you claiming accoppela was a thing back then? Do you have a source for that?

Offline imayid2

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Re: Halachic Source for no music during sefira
« Reply #44 on: July 21, 2022, 11:29:13 PM »
Great thought. But all major poskim since recorded music came on scene firmly disagree. Can you pinpoint one that agrees with you?
Also, I patiently await your response to this.

Offline Dan

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Re: Halachic Source for no music during sefira
« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2022, 11:36:18 PM »
Are you claiming accoppela was a thing back then? Do you have a source for that?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_cappella
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: Halachic Source for no music during sefira
« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2022, 11:36:57 PM »
Also, I patiently await your response to this.
I never said anything in these threads about recorded music.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline imayid2

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Re: Halachic Source for no music during sefira
« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2022, 11:39:21 PM »
I never said anything in these threads about recorded music.
הבו דלא לוסיף עלה. The Achronim assered live music, we don't have to look for ways to apply it to other things.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Halachic Source for no music during sefira
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2022, 11:46:10 PM »
How in the world can a recording of people singing be worse than hearing people sing?

What makes something a musical instrument? Shouldn't speakers be considered an instrument?

Offline imayid2

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Re: Halachic Source for no music during sefira
« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2022, 11:46:58 PM »
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_cappella
There are different types of accappela though. Thats mainly talking about "in the style of the chapel'')[1] music is a performance by a singer or a singing group without instrumental accompaniment".

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Re: Halachic Source for no music during sefira
« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2022, 11:52:07 PM »
What makes something a musical instrument? Shouldn't speakers be considered an instrument?
I didn't mean to preclude recored music in that post. To the point, it's not as unanimous as you make it out to be since R Ovadia was matir as well as others that I've heard מפי השמועה, but I didn't want to bring it up since it comes down to individual Rabbanim and how they pasken - and how you think the 'Oilam' is noheg which is subjective and unprovable.

I only walked into the conversation when somebody made the ridiculous claim human singing is Assur and one needs a Raya to be matir, when it's a mefurash Shulchan Aruch to differentiate.

There can interesting scenarios in the middle to think about, like a robot playing actual musical instruments from prerecorded notes which may not be as fluid and spontaneously responsive as a human, but then AI can do a lot of that as well. Then you can argue an element of the Simcha is created by the person playing it aside from the actual sounds produced. etc etc.

Ultimately, live music is a multi billion industry because it's different than recorded somehow.

״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline imayid2

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Re: Halachic Source for no music during sefira
« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2022, 12:03:44 AM »
I didn't mean to preclude recored music in that post. To the point, it's not as unanimous as you make it out to be since R Ovadia was matir
Source?

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Re: Halachic Source for no music during sefira
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2022, 12:06:52 AM »
Source?
שו"ת ביחווה דעת (חלק ו סימן לד
 
(I don't rely on him at all in Halacha, just the easiest and most concrete to cite that it isn't as unanimous as you say, and enough to establish it hasn't reached the status of a universally accepted Minhag so remains up to individual Poskim to decide).


Here's a list of some other Poskim that were matir. http://www.kaduri.net/?CategoryID=523&ArticleID=1734

״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline imayid2

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Re: Halachic Source for no music during sefira
« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2022, 12:08:08 AM »
So is that all you got, cause it’s not looking good…
יחוה דעת חלק ו ״אף על פי שמותר מעיקר הדין שאר ימות השנה דרך הרדיו ורשם קול שירי קודש המלווים כלי נגינה, אבל בימ הספירה וכן בימי בין המצרים יש להימנע מלשומעם.״
« Last Edit: July 22, 2022, 12:12:35 AM by imayid2 »

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Re: Halachic Source for no music during sefira
« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2022, 12:16:49 AM »
So is that all you got, cause it’s not looking good…
יחוה דעת חלק ו ״אף על פי שמותר מעיקר הדין שאר ימות השנה דרך הרדיו ורשם קול שירי קודש המלווים כלי נגינה, אבל בימ הספירה וכן בימי בין המצרים יש להימנע מלשומעם.״
Sorry, the correct place is ח"א סימן מה although it's true that there he is talking about the rest of the year, and only uses the distinction between live and recored as a סמך, but you have the חלקת יעקב that he is using who applies it to everything
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline imayid2

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Re: Halachic Source for no music during sefira
« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2022, 12:32:12 AM »
but you have the חלקת יעקב that he is using who applies it to everything
He does not. You’re running out of options.

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Re: Halachic Source for no music during sefira
« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2022, 12:37:35 AM »
He does not. You’re running out of options.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline imayid2

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Re: Halachic Source for no music during sefira
« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2022, 12:44:12 AM »

He isn’t talking about ימי ספירה ובין המצרים.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Halachic Source for no music during sefira
« Reply #58 on: July 22, 2022, 12:50:17 AM »
Sorry, the correct place is ח"א סימן מה although it's true that there he is talking about the rest of the year, and only uses the distinction between live and recored as a סמך, but you have the חלקת יעקב that does the same
FTFY

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Re: Halachic Source for no music during sefira
« Reply #59 on: July 22, 2022, 01:51:25 AM »
You’re running out of options.
What you're not realizing is that it's the same Issur of Aveilus on the Churban, we're just meikel during the year and machmir during the 3 weeks.

In any case, here you have it clear as daylight from R' Yossef Kappach

47. שאלה: האם מותר לשמוע מוזיקה ובפרט בספירת העומר?
תשובה: מותר לשמוע מוזיקה מקלטת או מרדיו (תוספת התלמיד: ואפילו מוזיקה קלאסית), דאינו כלי הניגון ממש. וכן מותר לשמוע שירי קודש (תוספת התלמיד: ומשמע דאפילו מכלי הניגון עצמם). ובספירת העומר אין לחשוש כלל לשום דבר.


http://www.tora.co.il/shiurim/tsuriel/p_kapach.doc

״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים