Author Topic: US Politics/2016 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread (Read 3981644 times)

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #17740 on:** February 02, 2018, 03:24:45 PM »

Quote from: aygart on February 02, 2018, 03:16:23 PM

But it is not an opinion, it is a claim of fact.

You want to argue. You asked how I look at it and I answered. I am not saying you need to look at it that way. I asked you to give me examples to help me understand how you view it but you refused. So let me try again. Is there an example you can give me where you view something as a fact but believe it to be not true?

aygart · « **Reply #17741 on:** February 02, 2018, 03:25:19 PM »

https://www.vox.com/2018/2/2/16965146/nunes-memo-dud-analysis

Some very important points he makes about some vagaries in the article, albeit with a partisan slant, but no worse than anyone else. He also points out that the memo makes a specific claim of a lie told by Steele to the FBI but that lie is not really relevant to any of the investigations.

aygart · « **Reply #17742 on:** February 02, 2018, 03:30:44 PM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on February 02, 2018, 03:24:45 PM

You want to argue. You asked how I look at it and I answered. I am not saying you need to look at it that way. I asked you to give me examples to help me understand how you view it but you refused. So let me try again. Is there an example you can give me where you would call something a fact but believe it to be not true?

FTFY.

Quote from: yuneeq on February 02, 2018, 03:03:34 PM

The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.

When saying you view something as a fact it does not fit into that definition but when quoting a claim of fact made by someone the correct term to use is not opinion but fact since it is a statement of fact which the person making the claim views or claims to view as such. My feeling about whether it is true or not is my opinion on the matter and not a fact.

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #17743 on:** February 02, 2018, 03:34:01 PM »

Quote from: aygart on February 02, 2018, 03:30:44 PM

FTFY. When saying you view something as a fact it does not fit into that definition but when quoting a claim of fact made by someone the correct term to use is not opinion but fact since it is a statement of fact which the person making the claim views or claims to view as such. My feeling about whether it is true or not is my opinion on the matter and not a fact.

So you cant give me an example. I suspected that from the beginning. You guys need to get out in the real world more.

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #17744 on:** February 02, 2018, 03:36:55 PM »

Memo poll
10 = Bombshell
1 = Nothing Burger

What say you?

aygart · « **Reply #17745 on:** February 02, 2018, 03:38:22 PM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on February 02, 2018, 03:34:01 PM

So you cant give me an example. I suspected that from the beginning. You guys need to get out in the real world more.

Any unverified claim of fact that i either do or do not believe can be called a fact. The golden showers, peeing on the bed etc. All facts claimed by the dossier whether verified or not. Claims that Trump colluded directly with Russia, the Clinton discussed emails in the tarmac meeting. The claim that the SOTU was the most viewed in history. There are millions of examples out there. Those are all matters of fact and not opinions.

aygart · « **Reply #17746 on:** February 02, 2018, 03:41:02 PM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on February 02, 2018, 03:36:55 PM

Memo poll
10 = Bombshell
1 = Nothing Burger

What say you?

Regarding the mueller investigation a nothingburger, regarding the FBI a bombshell if the claims are true.

aygart · « **Reply #17747 on:** February 02, 2018, 03:42:06 PM »

It should be easy to see who is saying the truth about McCabe. Release the transcripts.

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #17748 on:** February 02, 2018, 03:42:50 PM »

Quote from: aygart on February 02, 2018, 03:38:22 PM

Any unverified claim of fact that i either do or do not believe can be called a fact. The golden showers, peeing on the bed etc. All facts claimed by the dossier whether verified or not. Claims that Trump colluded directly with Russia, the Clinton discussed emails in the tarmac meeting. There are millions of examples out there. Those are all matters of fact and not opinions.

Something that YOU say is fact but believe it is not true. What is so hard to understand? If don't want to answer the question I fully understand why. Just don't keep trying to spin the question into something I am not asking.

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #17749 on:** February 02, 2018, 03:43:44 PM »

Quote from: aygart on February 02, 2018, 03:42:06 PM

It should be easy to see who is saying the truth about McCabe. Release the transcripts.

Great point but AFAIK the R's won't release them.

aygart · « **Reply #17750 on:** February 02, 2018, 03:45:13 PM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on February 02, 2018, 03:42:50 PM

Something that YOU say is fact but believe it is not true. What is so hard to understand? If don't want to answer the question I fully understand why. Just don't keep trying to spin the question into something I am not asking.

When discussing any of them I would call them facts not opinions.

aygart · « **Reply #17751 on:** February 02, 2018, 03:45:55 PM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on February 02, 2018, 03:43:44 PM

Great point but AFAIK the R's won't release them.

Is that a prediction?

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #17752 on:** February 02, 2018, 03:47:25 PM »

Quote from: aygart on February 02, 2018, 03:45:13 PM

When discussing any of them I would call them facts not opinions.

I think the whole problem we are having is the understanding of the English language.

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #17753 on:** February 02, 2018, 03:49:29 PM »

Quote from: aygart on February 02, 2018, 03:45:55 PM

Is that a prediction?

No, just what the talking heads have been saying. If it is not classified why didn't they release the info to back up their facts/claims/opinions?

aygart · « **Reply #17754 on:** February 02, 2018, 03:51:08 PM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on February 02, 2018, 03:47:25 PM

I think the whole problem we are having is the understanding of the English language.

That is what it seems. I am ready to debate that. Do you concede that something someone claims as a fact whether true or not cannot be called an opinion? All of these things fit into definition 4 of the word fact but not into any of the word opinion.

There is a big difference between referring to it using the word fact and saying "that is a fact". This is where context matters since we are dealing with the difference between the definitions of the word.

aygart · « **Reply #17755 on:** February 02, 2018, 03:54:04 PM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on February 02, 2018, 03:49:29 PM

No, just what the talking heads have been saying. If it is not classified why didn't they release the info to back up their facts/claims/opinions?

We don't know what is there in the testmony that may be classified. What is the process under house rules to release transcripts of closed session testimony? Can the witness/DOJ prevent it's release as a condition to the agreement to testify? I suspect we will hear more about this over the coming das.

We will also have a lot of this garbage.

I do think that now that there is all this out there it will lead to some of the underlying docs to be released. Without the memo out there that would never have happened. Once they do get released at least one of them will have egg on their face and more likely both.

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #17756 on:** February 02, 2018, 03:57:36 PM »

Quote from: aygart on February 02, 2018, 03:41:02 PM

, regarding the FBI a bombshell if the claims are true.

As in someone did something illegal?

aygart · « **Reply #17757 on:** February 02, 2018, 03:57:48 PM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on February 02, 2018, 01:56:28 PM

Who am I?

That’s it? Dishonest and misleading memo wrecked the House intel committee, destroyed trust with Intelligence Community, damaged relationship with FISA court, and inexcusably exposed classified investigation of an American citizen. For what? DOJ & FBI must keep doing their jobs.

https://twitter.com/jamestaranto/status/959528423294164992

aygart · « **Reply #17758 on:** February 02, 2018, 04:00:09 PM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on February 02, 2018, 03:57:36 PM

As in someone did something illegal?

If they based the FISA application on an unverified dossier of known oppo research without telling that info to the court then that may be perjury but I am not sure. The claims of people going to jail seem exaggerated at this point. Maybe they were part of the 2 items removed but no way to know that now.

aygart · « **Reply #17759 on:** February 02, 2018, 04:03:19 PM »

https://www.dailywire.com/news/26699/6-serious-outstanding-questions-house-intelligence-ben-shapiro

Some of these questions can be answered by actual documents – for example, releasing the underlying FISA application, or the transcript of McCabe’s testimony. Other questions can be answered through testimony under oath. In coming weeks, there should be serious calls for both.

Topic Wiki

Poll

Who are you voting for?

Author Topic: US Politics/2016 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread (Read 3981644 times)