Are You An Organ Donor?

[davidrotts63]

I am ok with the no donating and yes receiving concept.

My 2 issues right now from this thread were brought up tangentially:
1. pikuach nefesh doesn't apply to a goy (the hatzolah example) and
2. kavod hames doesn't apply to a goy

is the latter true?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Say from your religious views you can't donate a kidney, would that prevent me from donating one to you?

No.

[hvaces42]

I am ok with the no donating and yes receiving concept.

My 2 issues right now from this thread were brought up tangentially:
1. pikuach nefesh doesn't apply to a goy (the hatzolah example) and
2. kavod hames doesn't apply to a goy

Hatzolah always responds, Jew or not, shabbos or not. So whatever was written is plain wrong.

Kavod hames has nothing to do with organ donation. Donation turns on whether brain death is death or not and we hold it isnt.

Be extension you should be embarrassed that kivrei akum arent m'tamei. Your embarrassment comes from lack of information.   

[davidrotts63]

No.

And the same for you accepting it I assume, that is the way to look at our religious beliefs

[JoeyShmoe]

define this

First of all, I wrote this before you explained your embarrassment, which I along with others obviously understood that your issue is that we can't donate organs, if this brings you embarrassment I would assume lots of other things embarrass you, hence "you've got many other Judaism issues"

I am ok with the no donating and yes receiving concept.

My 2 issues right now from this thread were brought up tangentially:
1. pikuach nefesh doesn't apply to a goy (the hatzolah example) and
2. kavod hames doesn't apply to a goy

1. AFAIK the only reason Pikuach Nefesh is Doche Shabbos is מוטב שיחלל שבת אחת כדי לשמור שבתות הרבה (loosely translated to You're better off desecrating one Shabbos so that many Shabbosos may be kept. Being Mechalel Shabbos for a Goy won't bring to more Shmiras Shabbos
2. That's not why we can accept organs from a Goy, if they're harvesting the organ anyway there's no reason to let it die or give it away

[Redbull3]

Hatzolah always responds, Jew or not, shabbos or not. So whatever was written is plain wrong.

Phew

Be extension you should be embarrassed that kivrei akum arent m'tamei.

Correct.

Your embarrassment comes from lack of information.

Hopefully my Rabbi can give a logical explanation for these.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

It's the same reason for not having an autopsy, even when apparent homicide. There are organizations the are always busy making sure that no autopsy is done on a Jewish Niftar. @ChaimMoskowitz I understand why to a non Jew this would seem wrong, but you have to understand, it's not that we don't donate because we're afraid that a non Jew will get the organ (there are Jews donating kidneys altruistically to non Jews all of the time, I have intimate knowledge of that, I was very close to doing that myself), it's simply because we treat our deceased with utmost respect (we also insist on burying ASAP out of respect).

OK it is Friday so lets get it out. There is a perception (in the world) that Jews only care about themselves. You treat your deceased with the utmost respect. You don't treat the non-Jew deceased with the same respect. If it is wrong to take the organ of a deceased person then it is wrong. Not asking you to agree but do you understand what I am saying?

[Redbull3]

Hatzolah always responds, Jew or not, shabbos or not. So whatever was written is plain wrong.

1. AFAIK the only reason Pikuach Nefesh is Doche Shabbos is מוטב שיחלל שבת אחת כדי לשמור שבתות הרבה (loosely translated to You're better off desecrating one Shabbos so that many Shabbosos may be kept. Being Mechalel Shabbos for a Goy won't bring to more Shmiras Shabbos

Macholokes? So what's the truth.

2. That's not why we can accept organs from a Goy, if they're harvesting the organ anyway there's no reason to let it die or give it away

I know. But that's just one manifestation of kavod hames. I'm embarrassed by the underlying principle, not this one manifestation.

[jj1000]

OK it is Friday so lets get it out. There is a perception (in the world) that Jews only care about themselves. You treat your deceased with the utmost respect. You don't treat the non-Jew deceased with the same respect. If it is wrong to take the organ of a deceased person then it is wrong. Not asking you to agree but do you understand what I am saying?

I've addressed this before maybe TimT can find it but...

Do you help your kids more than your neighbors kids? If so please apply the same logic to the Jewish nation. Does it make it easier if you call us a tribe, that is essentially where these rules come from.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

And the same for you accepting it I assume, that is the way to look at our religious beliefs

Yo did not understand what my "no" means. I am an organ donor regardless of what my religion says.

[JoeyShmoe]

OK it is Friday so lets get it out. There is a perception (in the world) that Jews only care about themselves. You treat your deceased with the utmost respect. You don't treat the non-Jew deceased with the same respect. If it is wrong to take the organ of a deceased person then it is wrong. Not asking you to agree but do you understand what I am saying?

Yes, I can definitely understand what you're saying.

[jj1000]

If it is wrong to take the organ of a deceased person then it is wrong.

A Jew WOULD take an organ from a Jewish donor.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

I've addressed this before maybe TimT can find it but...

Do you help your kids more than your neighbors kids? If so please apply the same logic to the Jewish nation.

Yes I help my kids more and do apply the same logic. I am an organ donor for everyone!!!

[shapsam]

OK it is Friday so lets get it out. There is a perception (in the world) that Jews only care about themselves. You treat your deceased with the utmost respect. You don't treat the non-Jew deceased with the same respect. If it is wrong to take the organ of a deceased person then it is wrong. Not asking you to agree but do you understand what I am saying?

No. Its not a moral issue that Jews treat the deceased with respect, its Jewish law just like keeping Shabbos, so just like Jews dont think that non-Jews should keep Shabbos, they're also allowed to have autopsies etc.

[JoeyShmoe]

Macholokes? So what's the truth.

@hvaces42 are you saying that Hatzolah responds on Shabbos to calls that are 100% definite Goyim? I think what you mean is that they don't ask questions, and cover every call indiscriminately.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Yes, I can definitely understand what you're saying.

That is all I ask.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

A Jew WOULD take an organ from a Jewish donor.

You mean like a kidney? Others say you cant be an organ donor.

[jj1000]

Yes I help my kids more and do apply the same logic. I am an organ donor for everyone!!!

But now you are nit picking issues, I am talking more generally. Once you establish a baseline that you help family more than others, you can begin to justify why "There is a perception (in the world) that Jews only care about themselves."

And of course as you know Jews help all people. But there are somethings that at the end of the day you help family more.

[jj1000]

You mean like a kidney? Others say you cant be an organ donor.

This whole topic was meant for organ donations after death.

2 issues, donating and accepting a donation.

A Jew would accept an organ from anyone with no halachic problems.

You said " If it is wrong to take the organ of a deceased person then it is wrong. " but we don't say it's wrong at all to accept.

[JoeyShmoe]

That is all I ask.

I'd like to ask you then, do you not understand that the reason why Jews can't donate organs while they can accept isn't one of selfishness rather it's one that's based on the law of respecting our deceased? (Not asking you to agree, just if you can see the difference)