POLL: Wedding expenses in the frum Community - BH for simchos? or out of hand?

[TimT]

And the counterpoint is that money being the #1 things couples argue about isn't exclusive to those with no money. Money stresses out people of all income levels.

If I’m screwed either way then I may as well at least have the money TYVM.

[Just A Jew]

If I’m screwed either way then I may as well at least have the money TYVM.

That's your battle to have with your wife and/or mechutanim. Enjoy

[HudZ]

That's your battle to have with your wife and/or mechutanim. Enjoy

I've heard the same thing about being rich. S"b issues are very subjective to the people in the relationship. There's no golden rule to these things.

Changed your mind?

[Just A Jew]

Changed your mind?

Not at all. TimT said if he's going to have the same chances of fighting over money whether he's rich or poor, he'd rather fight as a rich man than a poor man. I wished him luck, although I should have wished him no fights as a rich man.

[HudZ]

Not at all. TimT said if he's going to have the same chances of fighting over money whether he's rich or poor, he'd rather fight as a rich man than a poor man. I wished him luck, although I should have wished him no fights as a rich man.

Ok, just making sure... I'm with you all the way on this one.

[yfr bachur]

For some reason its always the Mechutan taking out the wallet who is doing it "lman hashalom" or "not to affect the shalom bayis of the new couple"...

@HudZ
I have no idea where you are holding in life, but I would guess that you haven't made chasunos yet. Neither have I.
Emunah and Bitachon are easy when its someone elses checkbook/CC.
The challenge is when its your own, and to use it within the confines of your Emuna/Bitachon.
It is actually ASUR to take a loan that you have no way of paying back, no matter how big your bitachon is, not withstanding all the stories in Bitachon Weekly or the like.

Regarding "no one is forced to spend" as claimed by @lover of truth and others
As I said, I havent made a wedding yet, What I have seen is what my parents and parents in law went through making a few weddings.
My parents go in with the mindset "we need to make a chasuna for our child"...
One set of mechutanim demands this, the other demands that... and "lman Hashalom" out comes the checkbook, even when its patently ridiculous demands.
For example, one girl got married at 30 to a boy ten years older than her, who happened to also be a ben Zekunim. The mechutanim demanded the standard "girl makes shabbos sheva brachos". So the girls parents needed to sponsor a family reunion for the Mechutanims extended mishpacha. There were 200+ people, with about just 15-20! from our side. Any attempt of suggestion by my parents to trim the guest list was met by "but we've all been waiting so long for this simcha..." with NO offer to share in the costs.
Another set of mechutanim demanded a level of decore at the wedding way above the standard in our circles,
One girl demanded a certain shaitel that cost way more than the standard...
ect, ect....
But Lman Shalom...  is easy when its not your checkbook - the question is why there are no demands to reduce demands lman hashalom

[avromie7]

But Lman Shalom...  is easy when its not your checkbook - the question is why there are no demands to reduce demands lman hashalom

Those are the people who offer to pay the difference. You don't hear people complaining about them.

[lover of truth]

For some reason its always the Mechutan taking out the wallet who is doing it "lman hashalom" or "not to affect the shalom bayis of the new couple"...

@HudZ
I have no idea where you are holding in life, but I would guess that you haven't made chasunos yet. Neither have I.
Emunah and Bitachon are easy when its someone elses checkbook/CC.
The challenge is when its your own, and to use it within the confines of your Emuna/Bitachon.
It is actually ASUR to take a loan that you have no way of paying back, no matter how big your bitachon is, not withstanding all the stories in Bitachon Weekly or the like.

Regarding "no one is forced to spend" as claimed by @lover of truth and others
As I said, I havent made a wedding yet, What I have seen is what my parents and parents in law went through making a few weddings.
My parents go in with the mindset "we need to make a chasuna for our child"...
One set of mechutanim demands this, the other demands that... and "lman Hashalom" out comes the checkbook, even when its patently ridiculous demands.
For example, one girl got married at 30 to a boy ten years older than her, who happened to also be a ben Zekunim. The mechutanim demanded the standard "girl makes shabbos sheva brachos". So the girls parents needed to sponsor a family reunion for the Mechutanims extended mishpacha. There were 200+ people, with about just 15-20! from our side. Any attempt of suggestion by my parents to trim the guest list was met by "but we've all been waiting so long for this simcha..." with NO offer to share in the costs.
Another set of mechutanim demanded a level of decore at the wedding way above the standard in our circles,
One girl demanded a certain shaitel that cost way more than the standard...
ect, ect....
But Lman Shalom...  is easy when its not your checkbook - the question is why there are no demands to reduce demands lman hashalom

difficult people who suck money has nothing to do with chasunas per se.
My neighbor damaged my house and i eat the loss bec not worth to quarrrel with a neighbor. Point is if you make a shidduch with a person of same social standing as you and not some high flyer not sure why you have to pay out. My parents made several shidduchim b''h and when they married people of their social standing(nonwithstanding that they are well to do they live rather modestly) there were no arguments or demands whatsoever. But....some were big schvitzers(one which was broke) and wanted this and that
Dont take boy from a fancy mansion than complain why he wants such an extravagant affair

[lover of truth]

username does NOT check out.

You literally just contradicted yourself.

not sure why this user always cranks things up a notch
I think what i wrote is fairly simple

[daybyday]

Money is an issue if you have an abundance of it or if c'v you have a lack. Just the issues are obviously very different in the two situations. I have seen multiple marriages get ruined when significant money was made especially when it's earned in the younger years.

Like Gedalya Fenster says: "Everyone knows money won't make you happy, but everyone wants to find out for themselves" 

[Moshe Green]

not sure why this user always cranks things up a notch
I think what i wrote is fairly simple

Sorry about the notching things up.

[HudZ]

Money is an issue if you have an abundance of it or if c'v you have a lack. Just the issues are obviously very different in the two situations. I have seen multiple marriages get ruined when significant money was made especially when it's earned in the younger years.

Like Gedalya Fenster says: "Everyone knows money won't make you happy, but everyone wants to find out for themselves" 

I'll just say the question this is all gonna lead to:Who's happier, a rich man or a poor man?
Answer is- There is NO answer. There are plenty of rich people who are happy and plenty of poor people who struggle to stay afloat, and still they're happy. Vice versa too, There are Unhappy poor people, and unhappy rich...

We should all be HAPPY, HEALTHY and even Wealthy, but the main thing is, we should be happy! (Otherwise all the wealth in the world is nothing)

Have a great day everyone!

[Moshe Green]

We should all be HAPPY, HEALTHY and even Wealthy, but the main thing is, we should be happy! (Otherwise all the wealth in the world is nothing)

I would like to share my vort on Parshas Shekalim. [If you are in a bathroom, please skip]

The Pasuk says, "The rich man should not give more (than a half Shekel) and the poor man should not give less."

My question is as follows. We know that the Torah talks in accordance to the Yetzer Hara. For example, because a person honors his mother more, the Torah says "Honor your father and mother", putting father first because it is the harder thing to do. This is opposed to holding ones parents in awe where the Pasuk says mother before father ("Your mother and father you should fear.")

If so, we know that "One who has 100 wants 200." That the more one has the more he wants. As we know, the rich man has a harder time giving away his money than an average person. Thus, the Torah should have said the opposite, "The rich should not give less and the poor should not give more"!

We must say that the definition of rich and poor is not how we generally think, that its about money and how much he has of it. The real definition of rich/poor is like the Mishnah says, "Who is rich? One who is happy with his lot".

Someone who is happy with all that he has and has the frame of mind that Hashem has given him everything he needs, will be in such a state of euphoria that he will constantly be wanting to give. More and more. Thus when the Torah tells him to give 1/2 a Shekel, he'll want to give 10. 20. 100! No, says the Torah. "Stop at 1/2".

But the one who always feels lacking. That he never has enough. He will have such a hard time giving even the 1/2. I need that money for myself. How can i afford it? The Torah tells him, "1/2! Nothing less."

[HudZ]

I would like to share my vort on Parshas Shekalim. [If you are in a bathroom, please skip]

The Pasuk says, "The rich man should not give more (than a half Shekel) and the poor man should not give less."

My question is as follows. We know that the Torah talks in accordance to the Yetzer Hara. For example, because a person honors his mother more, the Torah says "Honor your father and mother", putting father first because it is the harder thing to do. This is opposed to holding ones parents in awe where the Pasuk says mother before father ("Your mother and father you should fear.")

If so, we know that "One who has 100 wants 200." That the more one has the more he wants. As we know, the rich man has a harder time giving away his money than an average person. Thus, the Torah should have said the opposite, "The rich should not give less and the poor should not give more"!

We must say that the definition of rich and poor is not how we generally think, that its about money and how much he has of it. The real definition of rich/poor is like the Mishnah says, "Who is rich? One who is happy with his lot".

Someone who is happy with all that he has and has the frame of mind that Hashem has given him everything he needs, will be in such a state of euphoria that he will constantly be wanting to give. More and more. Thus when the Torah tells him to give 1/2 a Shekel, he'll want to give 10. 20. 100! No, says the Torah. "Stop at 1/2".

But the one who always feels lacking. That he never has enough. He will have such a hard time giving even the 1/2. I need that money for myself. How can i afford it? The Torah tells him, "1/2! Nothing less."

Ty for sharing. Very nice.

[WonderingYid]

For some reason its always the Mechutan taking out the wallet who is doing it "lman hashalom" or "not to affect the shalom bayis of the new couple"...

@HudZ
I have no idea where you are holding in life, but I would guess that you haven't made chasunos yet. Neither have I.
Emunah and Bitachon are easy when its someone elses checkbook/CC.
The challenge is when its your own, and to use it within the confines of your Emuna/Bitachon.
It is actually ASUR to take a loan that you have no way of paying back, no matter how big your bitachon is, not withstanding all the stories in Bitachon Weekly or the like.

Regarding "no one is forced to spend" as claimed by @lover of truth and others
As I said, I havent made a wedding yet, What I have seen is what my parents and parents in law went through making a few weddings.
My parents go in with the mindset "we need to make a chasuna for our child"...
One set of mechutanim demands this, the other demands that... and "lman Hashalom" out comes the checkbook, even when its patently ridiculous demands.
For example, one girl got married at 30 to a boy ten years older than her, who happened to also be a ben Zekunim. The mechutanim demanded the standard "girl makes shabbos sheva brachos". So the girls parents needed to sponsor a family reunion for the Mechutanims extended mishpacha. There were 200+ people, with about just 15-20! from our side. Any attempt of suggestion by my parents to trim the guest list was met by "but we've all been waiting so long for this simcha..." with NO offer to share in the costs.
Another set of mechutanim demanded a level of decore at the wedding way above the standard in our circles,
One girl demanded a certain shaitel that cost way more than the standard...
ect, ect....
But Lman Shalom...  is easy when its not your checkbook - the question is why there are no demands to reduce demands lman hashalom

Some people need to grow a pair...

[yfr bachur]

Some people need to grow a pair...

But what do you do when all the Shadchanim and Rabbanim and so on tell you suck it up "lmaan Hashalom" and no one is willing to go to the other side and or their rabbanim and make it clear that the demands are unreasonable.

These weren't shidduchim with people from other wealth brackets, if anything, my parents are in a HIGHER tax bracket then ALL their mechutanim. The one shidduch my in laws made with a "higher bracket" family (aside from mine ) was actually the cleanest in terms of all the negotiations. The parents each gave what they were able to, my in laws said OK to a fancier hall than they were used to, bec the understood that the other side needed a more elegant event than the standard israel i Yeshivish wedding... The (working) chassan wanted a bar with fancy hard drinks, HE paid for it.

[lover of truth]

But what do you do when all the Shadchanim and Rabbanim and so on tell you suck it up "lmaan Hashalom" and no one is willing to go to the other side and or their rabbanim and make it clear that the demands are unreasonable.

These weren't shidduchim with people from other wealth brackets, if anything, my parents are in a HIGHER tax bracket then ALL their mechutanim. The one shidduch my in laws made with a "higher bracket" family (aside from mine ) was actually the cleanest in terms of all the negotiations. The parents each gave what they were able to, my in laws said OK to a fancier hall than they were used to, bec the understood that the other side needed a more elegant event than the standard israel i Yeshivish wedding... The (working) chassan wanted a bar with fancy hard drinks, HE paid for it.

I noted depends if they are high flyers
like most expensive whiskey is sold in broke neighbhorhoods

[Sammy82]

Kosher money did a nice podcast recently on this topic (amongst others) with R' Yonason Schwartz.

[yfr bachur]

I'll just say the question this is all gonna lead to:Who's happier, a rich man or a poor man?
Answer is- There is NO answer. There are plenty of rich people who are happy and plenty of poor people who struggle to stay afloat, and still they're happy. Vice versa too, There are Unhappy poor people, and unhappy rich...

We should all be HAPPY, HEALTHY and even Wealthy, but the main thing is, we should be happy! (Otherwise all the wealth in the world is nothing)

Have a great day everyone!

One of my siblings in law live in a newish young community in EY. The rebbe of one of their kids called them in and asked them to please be cognizant of the fact that many of the other boys in the class come from homes with little money and to please tone it down... The rrebbe didnt have specific examples - just "this is the Avira" She was dumbfounded. They have more or less as little money as the rest of the population, true their apartment is a bit larger than most in the neighborhood - but so are the mortgage payments... This boy is active, really hard on his clothing - so usually is walking around with rubbed out pants, torn shoes...
The ONLY thing she could come up to explain the issue with was the fact that she's raising happy kids without pressures of money. They don't talk about it in front of their kids... other than B"h we have what we need.

[free123cc]

One of my siblings in law live in a newish young community in EY. The rebbe of one of their kids called them in and asked them to please be cognizant of the fact that many of the other boys in the class come from homes with little money and to please tone it down... The rrebbe didnt have specific examples - just "this is the Avira" She was dumbfounded. They have more or less as little money as the rest of the population, true their apartment is a bit larger than most in the neighborhood - but so are the mortgage payments... This boy is active, really hard on his clothing - so usually is walking around with rubbed out pants, torn shoes...
The ONLY thing she could come up to explain the issue with was the fact that she's raising happy kids without pressures of money. They don't talk about it in front of their kids... other than B"h we have what we need.

so what did he want them to tone down?