Author Topic: What will the US & Europe (and the world) learn starting Nov 8, 2021?  (Read 983 times)

Offline CountValentine

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Re: What will the US & Europe (and the world) learn starting Nov 8, 2021?
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2021, 10:01:51 AM »
You wrote we all knew this from day one - so why is the media and others peddling the unvaccinated to be selfish as they are putting others at risk when the vaccine is not stopping the spread
So we have gone from the vaccine being very effective but not 100% to not helping to stop the spread?
I guess logic and common sense just go out the window.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline CountValentine

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Re: What will the US & Europe (and the world) learn starting Nov 8, 2021?
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2021, 10:02:38 AM »
To get the chips into a many people as possible
...and don't forget to glow in the dark.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline aygart

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Re: What will the US & Europe (and the world) learn starting Nov 8, 2021?
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2021, 10:05:09 AM »
...and don't forget to glow in the dark.
Imagine what that would do to energy consumption
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline AsherO

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Re: What will the US & Europe (and the world) learn starting Nov 8, 2021?
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2021, 10:17:49 AM »
So require everyone to get weekly testing - if you really care about the spread shouldn't you be doing that? Enough calling people selfish for not getting the vaccine. Everyone is spreading it. Maybe the selfish people are the ones who think about themselves and think everyone around them should vaccinate so I don't get covid

That might be cost and/or resource/infrastructure prohibitive.

Weekly testing does very little to prevent spread considering COVID transmission is highest for a period of less than 24 hours. The testing-once-a-week thing was mostly to disincentive/inconvenience those who choose not to vaccinate.

Just because people who vaccinate can also spread COVID doesn't mean "everyone is spreading it". Considering they're less likely to contract COVID and also (potentially, not enough science) less likely to transmit even when infected.

Offline Ergel

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Re: What will the US & Europe (and the world) learn starting Nov 8, 2021?
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2021, 10:34:51 AM »
Why is the fact that some people who are vaccinated get Covid automatically equivalent to an equal amount of people who get vaccinated and don't get vaccinated get Covid?
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: What will the US & Europe (and the world) learn starting Nov 8, 2021?
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2021, 10:38:00 AM »
Why is the fact that some people who are vaccinated get Covid automatically equivalent to an equal amount of people who get vaccinated and don't get vaccinated get Covid?
Because if you are anti-vaccination this is one way to justify it.
The chip, magnetized and glow in the dark is not working to well.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline AsherO

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Re: What will the US & Europe (and the world) learn starting Nov 8, 2021?
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2021, 03:04:49 PM »
Now that it's Nov 8th, could anyone please post datapoints from non-resident/non-citizen passengers arriving from countries that were on the ban list that expired today?

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Re: What will the US & Europe (and the world) learn starting Nov 8, 2021?
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2021, 04:10:43 PM »
My nephew (non US citizen) previously booked tickets to come for Chanukah. He has a problem now because they won't give him a second dose in Israel because he recovered less than six months ago.

US policy needs updating to allow for recoverees, antibody tests, etc.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline 4yourinfo

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Re: What will the US & Europe (and the world) learn starting Nov 8, 2021?
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2021, 09:27:38 AM »
So we have gone from the vaccine being very effective but not 100% to not helping to stop the spread?
I guess logic and common sense just go out the window.
How about a study backing it up? https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext
Interpretation
Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. HostĖvirus interactions early in infection may shape the entire viral trajectory.

Offline S209

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Re: What will the US & Europe (and the world) learn starting Nov 8, 2021?
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2021, 03:01:28 PM »
How about a study backing it up? https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext
Interpretation
Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. HostĖvirus interactions early in infection may shape the entire viral trajectory.
I donít know if youíre playing dumb or are actually not understanding this but Iíll lay it out for you anyway.
A) If someone doesnít carry the virus they canít spread it.
B) Vaccinated people are much less likely to carry the virus than unvaccinated people.

Ergo, vaccinated people are less likely to transmit virus than unvaccinated people.

Additionally, in the very study you are quoting which claims peak viral load is similar in both the vaccinated and the unvaccinated there is also evidence that viral load decreases faster in vaccinated patients.

This is aside from the fact that it has always been assumed (with at least one study supporting the idea) that vaccinated people with COVID are less likely to transmit virus than unvaccinated people with COVID. Youíll need more than one study to confidently state that vaccinated people transmit virus at the same rate as unvaccinated people.
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Re: What will the US & Europe (and the world) learn starting Nov 8, 2021?
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2021, 03:22:47 PM »
I donít know if youíre playing dumb or are actually not understanding this but Iíll lay it out for you anyway.
A) If someone doesnít carry the virus they canít spread it.
B) Vaccinated people are much less likely to carry the virus than unvaccinated people.

Ergo, vaccinated people are less likely to transmit virus than unvaccinated people.

Additionally, in the very study you are quoting which claims peak viral load is similar in both the vaccinated and the unvaccinated there is also evidence that viral load decreases faster in vaccinated patients.

This is aside from the fact that it has always been assumed (with at least one study supporting the idea) that vaccinated people with COVID are less likely to transmit virus than unvaccinated people with COVID. Youíll need more than one study to confidently state that vaccinated people transmit virus at the same rate as unvaccinated people.

Are you ignoring recoverees?

Who is more likely to carry and transmit the virus, non-vaccinated people who previously had COVID-19, or vaccinated people that never had COVID-19?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline AsherO

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Re: What will the US & Europe (and the world) learn starting Nov 8, 2021?
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2021, 04:00:21 PM »
Who is more likely to carry and transmit the virus, non-vaccinated people who previously had COVID-19, or vaccinated people that never had COVID-19?

You made up your mind about this without looking at studies supporting either conclusion.

Offline as2

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Re: What will the US & Europe (and the world) learn starting Nov 8, 2021?
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2021, 04:03:02 PM »
Are you ignoring recoverees?

Who is more likely to carry and transmit the virus, non-vaccinated people who previously had COVID-19, or vaccinated people that never had COVID-19?
IINM the study out of TLV had ~6mm participants and showed that individuals who recover have stronger immunity than those who have been vaccinated.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline aygart

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Re: What will the US & Europe (and the world) learn starting Nov 8, 2021?
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2021, 04:31:48 PM »
You made up your mind about this without looking at studies supporting either conclusion.
Be that as it may, any policy ignoring the existence of recoverees is flawed.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: What will the US & Europe (and the world) learn starting Nov 8, 2021?
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2021, 04:33:16 PM »
You made up your mind about this without looking at studies supporting either conclusion.

You are saying I made up my mind, while all I did was ask a question, based on lots of anecdotal evidence.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline aygart

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Re: What will the US & Europe (and the world) learn starting Nov 8, 2021?
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2021, 04:38:20 PM »
You are saying I made up my mind, while all I did was ask a question, based on lots of anecdotal evidence.
C'mon man you were pushing this ever since you recovered.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline S209

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Re: What will the US & Europe (and the world) learn starting Nov 8, 2021?
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2021, 04:46:31 PM »
Are you ignoring recoverees?

Who is more likely to carry and transmit the virus, non-vaccinated people who previously had COVID-19, or vaccinated people that never had COVID-19?
I'm not ignoring anyone. Recoverees are entirely irrelevant to the point I was making. Everything I said is true for either or neither.
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