About that "jewish" wedding

[Alexsei]

Ok well, let's start by killing everyone who talks in shul.

Where did anyone argue for killing? Last I checked nobody in this thread wished any bad on the nebech sick girls, we were all saying that making a ceremony like this is a big no no with no justification.

[12HRS]

@chevron (or anybody really) why were the meraglim deserving of misa in this week's parsha?

for talking in shul. if they would have kept their mouths shut everything would have been fine.

[Definitions]

I see.

I think it’s complimented nicely by this piece said by Rav Aharon Leib Shteinman:

ETA Seforno in the beginning of the parsha says מפני חילול השם שעשו שאינו מתכפר אלא במיתה.

The quote from R Ahron leib is exact or some spelling mistake in there? Either way correct me if my understanding is wrong. He's saying they had previous aveiros that were deserving of misa but because  of rachamim they didn't get it. Now because of lashon hara they got it.

I don't like that answer. There's assumptions and pretty big coincidence that all 10 had the same thing.
(Side question saying lashon hara on eretz Yisroel was a known aveira before the meraglim?)

The other answer I hear. I don't know the source that chilul hashem is only mischaper with misa but it definitely rings a bell. And I guess the actual chilul hashem is them saying hashem can't do something?

If yes then I guess that can also answer the hava Amina of hashem when he wanted to kill out the whole klal Yisroel. Although I guess at what point is it a chilul hashem if everyone thinks so?

[imayid2]

The quote from R Ahron leib is exact or some spelling mistake in there?

הקנייה=הקב״ה

Either way correct me if my understanding is wrong. He's saying they had previous aveiros that were deserving of misa but because  of rachamim they didn't get it. Now because of lashon hara they got it.

I don't like that answer. There's assumptions and pretty big coincidence that all 10 had the same thing.

Your understanding is wrong. I don't know how you pulled that out.

.
(Side question saying lashon hara on eretz Yisroel was a known aveira before the meraglim?)

End of last weeks parsha

And I guess the actual chilul hashem is them saying hashem can't do something?

If yes then I guess that can also answer the hava Amina of hashem when he wanted to kill out the whole klal Yisroel. Although I guess at what point is it a chilul hashem if everyone thinks so?

To be clear, the seforno says this about the whole klal yisrael, he's explaining the geziras misah to die in the midbar. So it wasn't really a הוה אמינא, rather a maskana.

The actual sin seems to be the fact that they wavered in their emunah, this resulted in a chilul hashem. The meraglim were dealt with more severely because they were חוטא ומחטיא.

[chevron]

People who talk in shul are choteh umechate

They also publicly insult hashem and his Torah

I've seen many Talmidei Chachamim talk during kadish and chazaras hashatz despite it being an issue gamur.

I mentioned this specifically bc it's something many many frum Jews do despite it being wrong and insulting to hashem..

All while they preach about the need to defend the Torah and hashem


😴

[YitzyS]

People who talk in shul are choteh umechate

They also publicly insult hashem and his Torah

I've seen many Talmidei Chachamim talk during kadish and chazaras hashatz despite it being an issue gamur.

I mentioned this specifically bc it's something many many frum Jews do despite it being wrong and insulting to hashem..

All while they preach about the need to defend the Torah and hashem


😴

You have no idea how demented you sound

[chevron]

Except, this happens all day every day by supposedly Ehrlich Jews.

Folks here quote rav avigdor miller about gay marriage but he was just as vocal about talking in shul.

It's actually more insulting to walk into hashems house, the mikdash m'eat and while wearing tallis and teffilen, to talk where shulchan aruch and all poskim hold its forbidden .

[EliJelly]

Except, this happens all day every day by supposedly Ehrlich Jews.

Folks here quote rav avigdor miller about gay marriage but he was just as vocal about talking in shul.

It's actually more insulting to walk into hashems house, the mikdash m'eat and while wearing tallis and teffilen, to talk where shulchan aruch and all poskim hold its forbidden .

You're trying to make a point that talking during davening is as severe as gay marriage. Could be you're a 100% right, but you come across more like, "Why make such a fuss about this same gender wedding, no big deal more than talking during davening".

Instead, open a new thread explaining why talking during davening is a cardinal sin so it will perceived more like you care for the sanctity of the mikdash me'at rather than just downplaying the severity of ss marriage.

[12HRS]

Except, this happens all day every day by supposedly Ehrlich Jews.

Folks here quote rav avigdor miller about gay marriage but he was just as vocal about talking in shul.

It's actually more insulting to walk into hashems house, the mikdash m'eat and while wearing tallis and teffilen, to talk where shulchan aruch and all poskim hold its forbidden .

You always bring up this one issues as its clearly a major pet peeve of yours. But it helps to reframe it. R' Majeski in LA recently told how his Rov (I don't recall who) told him before he started as Rov of his kehilla a powerful point. He said before you go over to stop people from talking to each other in shul first you need to think how absolutely wonderful it is that 2 yidden want to talk with each other and can barely wait till a more appropriate time. It all comes down to how you choose to perceive it.

To be honest it pains me more that you are unable to grasp that everyone in life has their own personal yetzer haras that Hashem designed just for them. So what is simple for you (not talking in shul) might be a colossal challenge to someone else (as I am sure you have things that others would be bewildered at your actions)

Since you keep beating on it, I'll repost it again.

[imayid2]

Except, this happens all day every day by supposedly Ehrlich Jews.

Folks here quote rav avigdor miller about gay marriage but he was just as vocal about talking in shul.

It's actually more insulting to walk into hashems house, the mikdash m'eat and while wearing tallis and teffilen, to talk where shulchan aruch and all poskim hold its forbidden .

Since you keep beating on it, I'll repost it again.

I’m thinking of a few differences but hey why get technical. I’m in for people to view improper talking in Shul akin to treif, as long as they don’t start looking at treif lesbian marriage as talking in Shul…

[moko]

Not sure why you guys engage this troll.
This all started when he misunderstood a post and he keeps beings intentionally dense . He has a history of doing this so it shouldn't come as s surprise.

[shwarmabob]

It's funny: the first and only time I heard about this "wedding" is here on ddf.

[aygart]

Show me a pro talking in shul event, pro-talking in shul pride movements celebrations, flag waving, and student groups, and organized campaigns saturating the media with the message that talking in shul is natural, cannot be changed, and anyone who claims there is bechirah and doesn’t support those talking in shul is a cave man. Then have mass articles attacking those disturbed by talking in shul calling them intolerant, lacking ahavas Yisroel, causing Jews to go OTD, prioritizing a dirabanon of talking in shul over the mitzvah of making other Jews happy etc.

You bet this board would be up in arms.

The kiddush club?

[Definitions]

הקנייה=הקב״הYour understanding is wrong. I don't know how you pulled that out.End of last weeks parshaTo be clear, the seforno says this about the whole klal yisrael, he's explaining the geziras misah to die in the midbar. So it wasn't really a הוה אמינא, rather a maskana.

The actual sin seems to be the fact that they wavered in their emunah, this resulted in a chilul hashem. The meraglim were dealt with more severely because they were חוטא ומחטיא.

Yes now I see I totally misunderstood it.
What does this mean

שיש הנהגה של סביביו נשערה מאד, או משום מדה כנגד מדה

and

של החסר המיוחד

[imayid2]

Yes now I see I totally misunderstood it.
What does this meanand

יש הנהגה של סביביו נשערה מאד

He is more strict with people on loftier levels.

או משום מדה כנגד מדה

I don’t really understand what that means in this context.

של החסר המיוחד

Should be חסד החיוחד.

[aygart]

Lets be clear here, the big issue here is not as mush any aveiros done by 2 individuals, as horrible as that is. The issue is how the aveira was celebrated by a crowd of seemingly frum people. והפורץ גדר ינשכנו נחש

[Definitions]

End of last weeks parsha

I was making an assumption. Is there an issur to say lashon hara on EY? Where do you see that from last week's parsha?

[imayid2]

I was making an assumption. Is there an issur to say lashon hara on EY? Where do you see that from last week's parsha?

See רש״י דברים א א.

Here is the מזרחי on it.

[chevron]

Since you keep beating on it, I'll repost it again.

I guess you can say the same about this "wedding" 2 girls trying so hard to remain in the boundaries of Judaism.

It's exactly the mentality above that I use talking in shul as a comparison.

It's wrong
Every one knows it's wrong
It's insulting to God
It vexes most rabbanim
It disrupts the prayer
Many do it
Without shame
In public

Why ? Because they justify to themselves "but I came to shul.. I'm trying"

My father would kick them all out... It's why he rarely attends the shul he was instrumental in founding.

It's just ironic watching folks get all worked up about what goes on elsewhere and in their own 4 Amos eh well what can you do.

I'm still vexed at the absolute chutzpah of the 2 visitors who talked non stop when visiting here and I kindly asked them to be quiet or talk in the lobby, guy said "you're right, not talking any more" and just proceeded to talk with his shtreimel wearing friend for next 20 minutes

[Dan]

I guess you can say the same about this "wedding" 2 girls trying so hard to remain in the boundaries of Judaism.

It's exactly the mentality above that I use talking in shul as a comparison.

It's wrong
Every one knows it's wrong
It's insulting to God
It vexes most rabbanim
It disrupts the prayer
Many do it
Without shame
In public

Why ? Because they justify to themselves "but I came to shul.. I'm trying"

My father would kick them all out... It's why he rarely attends the shul he was instrumental in founding.

It's just ironic watching folks get all worked up about what goes on elsewhere and in their own 4 Amos eh well what can you do.

I'm still vexed at the absolute chutzpah of the 2 visitors who talked non stop when visiting here and I kindly asked them to be quiet or talk in the lobby, guy said "you're right, not talking any more" and just proceeded to talk with his shtreimel wearing friend for next 20 minutes

It's a massive problem that nearly every shul struggles with mightily. And I might even buy the argument that Kiddush Club is a celebration of this culture.

But it belongs as it's own thread, otherwise it's just a tu quoque logical fallacy.