OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment

[sddd]

If I understand correctly, OU no longer puts DE as a designation, but some OU-D products are really DE.
OREO's I believe are only DE (although this may need to be continuously verified?)

What other well known OU-D items are typically only DE?

[12HRS]

Bring back the DE!!!

[Mordyk]

Is Snyders snacks ou-d or ou-de?

[cholent]

https://alldaf.org/p/161335

[JMHO]

There are products listed as OU-DE

[Baruch]

https://consumer.crckosher.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Dairy-Equipment-2021-1.pdf

[herb]

What other well known OU-D items are typically only DE?

How about products that are listed as ou-d but are only powdered milk?
For example Pringles BBQ flavor
I've also heard that all chocolate products from the Mars company are only powdered milk

[sddd]

Would be great if these were DE

https://www.amazon.com/Drakes-Coffee-Cakes-Snack-Boxes/dp/B07GFTZCMX/ref=asc_df_B07GFTZCMX/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312153127825&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3171263158729258807&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9004346&hvtargid=pla-613095274273&psc=1

[imayid2]

https://consumer.crckosher.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Dairy-Equipment-2021-1.pdf

There are times when something is 100% bona fide milchigs, but it is not labeled as dairy in the allergy panel. This is because only certain components of the milk trigger common dairy allergies. However, as far as kosher is concerned, the food is decidedly dairy.

I assume this is referring to milk proteins?

Are there any examples besides caseinate? Are these types of ingredients ever listed ambiguously as “flavors” without an allergy disclaimer?

In this article Rabbi Twerski from the OU indicates that besides creamers the allergy warnings are a reliable measure:

[imayid2]

https://consumer.crckosher.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Dairy-Equipment-2021-1.pdf

Most importantly, the volume produced on commercial equipment is so high that any flavor (bliyos) remaining in the walls would certainly become nullified in a ratio of 1/60 to the kosher food now being processed. (This is known as shefa, see YD 99.) This is in contrast to when one cooks at home, in which case there is generally not 60 times as much kosher food as there is tainted equipment.

I don’t understand this.

Keilem are always assumed to have more than 1/60 of what they contain, why is commercial any different?
Shefa is when the amount of issur itself is negligible.

[imayid2]

What other well known OU-D items are typically only DE?

This is outdated but it’s a good starting point
https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/48037/creating-a-crowd-sourced-database-of-non-dairy-ou-d-products

[liosac]

I don’t understand this.

Keilem are always assumed to have more than 1/60 of what they contain, why is commercial any different?
Shefa is when the amount of issur itself is negligible.

Perhaps he means to say that there is such a large volume of product being produced that even if bliyos don’t come out of a kli uniformly there are only two possibilities; either the bliyos were concentrated in less than 60 times volume of product, in which case the tainted product is batel חד בתרי in the far larger amount of untainted product, or the bliyos may have uniformly gone into the entire run in which case it is consistently batel in the product run which contains many times 60.

(As far as the bitul there is at least אין כוונתו לבטל as well as the fact that the run is not specifically for Jews.)

(Additionally the original bliyos in the Keilim only have to be calculated כפי המדומע if we don’t say חנ״ן if it is considered לח בלח שאר איסורים especially לגבי the issur of חלב עכו״ם where there are additional shittos that we don’t say חנ״ן)

[imayid2]

Perhaps he means to say that there is such a large volume of product being produced that even if bliyos don’t come out of a kli uniformly there are only two possibilities; either the bliyos were concentrated in less than 60 times volume of product, in which case the tainted product is batel חד בתרי in the far larger amount of untainted product, or the bliyos may have uniformly gone into the entire run in which case it is consistently batel in the product run which contains many times 60.

If you assume חנ״ן then the volume doesn’t help. Everything becomes entirely treif as it comes.

[aygart]

I don’t understand this.

Keilem are always assumed to have more than 1/60 of what they contain, why is commercial any different?
Shefa is when the amount of issur itself is negligible.

I once went through this around 25 years ago but did not write notes so I am somewhat fuzzy, but this is the basic idea that I recall.

1) There is definitely industrial equipment that qualifies as נחושתו דק ורוחבו גדול. I did the math.

2) If we don't say ChN"N for cholov akum then there is a possibility to say you include the entire run in tashmisho bishefa (depends on machlokes IIRC)

3) When you are not dealing with an individual chaticha there are opinions that we don't say ChN"N until the end of the process.

there was more to this.

[imayid2]

1) There is definitely industrial equipment that qualifies as נחושתו דק ורוחבו גדול. I did the math.

Ok, this would very much depend on the type of equipment, so it’s kind of useless as a rule because of its specific application.

2) If we don't say ChN"N for cholov akum then there is a possibility to say you include the entire run in tashmisho bishefa (depends on machlokes IIRC)

Is there a reason cholov akum in particular shouldn’t be subject to chanan?

3) When you are not dealing with an individual chaticha there are opinions that we don't say ChN"N until the end of the process.

Sounds interesting, if you have a chance to pull sources on this it would be appreciated.

[liosac]

Is there a reason cholov akum in particular shouldn’t be subject to chanan?

[imayid2]

So the reason always circles back to the פרי חדש (and Rav Moshe)…

Is it always לח בלח?

[liosac]

So the reason always circles back to the פרי חדש (and Rav Moshe)…

Is it always לח בלח?

Rav Moshe himself is willing to be somech on לח בלח שאר איסורים even without the pri chadash

[monoso]

regarding natural flavors containing dairy. I was told that even if there is dairy in the flavor, it's only acting as a binder, etc, and is not the flavor itself, and therefore would be batul.

[imayid2]

Rav Moshe himself is willing to be somech on לח בלח שאר איסורים even without the pri chadash

True but חכמת אדם and pri megadim argue.
See discussion here
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=130814.msg2639991#msg2639991

Either way this all has very little to do with what he wrote it the article which is inaccurate. And is it really always לח בלח?