ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION

[Yehuda57]

Why assume it was a soldier and not a fellow inmate?
AFAIK they are muchzak in those kinds of things...

I'm not assuming anything. For all I know it is an unjust raid. I'm just saying it is premature to get bent out of shape without knowing anything.

[jew]

You can't run a prison system like that. Either try them and execute them or jail them. You can't let any random soldier or policeman decide on how any specific terrorist gets treated.

I know.
Was just explaining the frustration of many to the one who asked above ...

[Ver hut gazugt]

You can't run a prison system like that. Either try them and execute them or jail them. You can't let any random soldier or policeman decide on how any specific terrorist gets treated.

two pieces here. First should they believe these terrorists at all and part two even if the allegation are credible, you can issue a warrant and allow them to come in and surrender. Publicly bringing in a swat team as if they are terrorists just seems wrong on so many levels.

[Just A Jew]

two pieces here. First should they believe these terrorists at all and part two even if the allegation are credible, you can issue a warrant and allow them to come in and surrender. Publicly bringing in a swat team as if they are terrorists just seems wrong on so many levels.

First, who said they are relying on anything the terrorist said? It didn't say who they spoke to or what evidence they had against these specific soldiers, other than the initial observation by the hospital of trauma (which says it probably wasn't a handprint bruise). Second, if we are talking sodomy here, it's not some white collar crime where you let the guy turn himself in at his own convenience. They didn't come in like they were terrorists. They came in like the suspects may have committed a violent crime.

The outrage here is grossly misplaced.

Why would someone want to be a soldier ?

If knowing that you will be publicly arrested for (allegedly) sodomizing prisoners makes you not want to be a soldier, you probably shouldn't be a soldier.

[Chuchum Ainer]

.....

The outrage here is grossly misplaced.

While i agree with waiting for more details before coming to conclusions, that goes both ways.

how about "the outrage here might be grossly misplaced"

[Chuchum Ainer]

Sampling of headlines from Times of Israel:
"As diplomats scramble, Israel says response to Hezbollah to be ‘harsh’ but contained"
"Hezbollah moves missiles as region braces for IDF response to deadly Golan attack"
"Lufthansa cancels two flights to Israel amid spiraling tensions in the north"
"Ministers authorize Netanyahu, Gallant to order retaliation for deadly Golan strike"
"Beirut flights nixed or delayed as Lebanon girds for Israeli reprisal for Golan strike"

CNN
"Fears grow of a wider war between Israel and Hezbollah after a rocket attack in the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights that killed 12 children. Israel blames Hezbollah for the attack, and has said the militant group will “pay the price.”"
"Several European countries have reiterated calls for their citizens to urgently leave Lebanon."
"As a desperate diplomatic effort seeks to prevent war, Beirut parties on"

Besides the cute attempts to explain how Israel needs to hit hard but not chasveshalom too hard, so as not to cause, gasp, a war (cuz whats now is not a war etc etc), what jumps out at me is:
The world, and Hezbollah are all worried what Israel's response will be. But, instead of actually executing on the massive response everyone is anticipating, Israel will probably pull another "we hit 46.8 terror targets, so its all good now" show of force. Meh.

[Ver hut gazugt]

First, who said they are relying on anything the terrorist said? It didn't say who they spoke to or what evidence they had against these specific soldiers, other than the initial observation by the hospital of trauma (which says it probably wasn't a handprint bruise). Second, if we are talking sodomy here, it's not some white collar crime where you let the guy turn himself in at his own convenience. They didn't come in like they were terrorists. They came in like the suspects may have committed a violent crime.

The outrage here is grossly misplaced.

If knowing that you will be publicly arrested for (allegedly) sodomizing prisoners makes you not want to be a soldier, you probably shouldn't be a soldier.

they arrested more then one person. So you are saying all 8 did it?

It’s the perception that there is a part of the military that is out to find something wrong so they can show the world they are “democratic”. Putting the needs and safety of soldiers second or in third place.

[Just A Jew]

they arrested more then one person. So you are saying all 8 did it?

It’s the perception that there is a part of the military that is out to find something wrong so they can show the world they are “democratic”. Putting the needs and safety of soldiers second or in third place.

Maybe? I don't know. The concept of prison guards ganging up on a prisoner is pretty well established.

Again, while I don't know what happened, reading between the lines leads me to believe sodomy was involved here. This isn't Internal Affairs cracking down on the use of donated gear. There may be plenty to get up in arms about regarding internal IDF policies, but this ain't it.

[Chuchum Ainer]

SDE TEIMAN BASE, Israel (AP) — The Israeli military said Monday it was holding nine soldiers for questioning following allegations of “substantial abuse” of a detainee at a shadowy facility where Israel has held Palestinian prisoners throughout the war in Gaza.

The military did not disclose additional details surrounding the alleged abuse, saying only that its top legal official had launched a probe. An investigation by The Associated Press and reports by rights groups have exposed abysmal conditions and abuses at the Sde Teiman facility, the country’s largest detention center.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-news-29-07-2024-844aac9711be878604afca5c53abc9f2

"shadowy facility.....country's largest detention center"
hmm

[zh cohen]

I'm not assuming anything. For all I know it is an unjust raid. I'm just saying it is premature to get bent out of shape without knowing anything.

My very uneducated understanding is that going outside of a solider's chain of command to arrest them is a big no-no. Doing so is essentially saying that you suspect the whole place of being involved in the crime or the cover-up.

Wearing masks while doing so just reinforces the perception that even those doing so feel like they are doing something wrong.

[ExGingi]

My very uneducated understanding is that going outside of a solider's chain of command to arrest them is a big no-no. Doing so is essentially saying that you suspect the whole place of being involved in the crime or the cover-up.

Wearing masks while doing so just reinforces the perception that even those doing so feel like they are doing something wrong.

If there is suspicion of prisoner abuse it should be investigated.

There are many ways to investigate, and to bring suspects for questioning.

Given the circumstances, the way this was done was 100% WRONG (and even army brass are admitting to this).

A huge problem is the eagerness to placate the Hague prosecutors. They never learn, no matter what you do, the prosecutors and other antisemites will find a way to accuse and blame Israel of wrongdoing. The moral thing to do is enable the army to go full force without interruption, so that the war and suffering can end ASAP, and after the war investigate whatever suspicions or allegations come up.

[Yehuda57]

My very uneducated understanding is that going outside of a solider's chain of command to arrest them is a big no-no. Doing so is essentially saying that you suspect the whole place of being involved in the crime or the cover-up.

Wearing masks while doing so just reinforces the perception that even those doing so feel like they are doing something wrong.

I know very little about this, but my feeling was neither does anyone else. My gut reaction was to agree with everyone up in arms, but then I thought it might be prudent to hold off until we know more. For all we know there was rampant abuse by many, many guards, with everyone else turning a blind eye and covering up.

Thinking about it more, that would mean far more than 8 arrests, no? And leaking just one tiny bit of info (the injury) stinks of them trying to make people think the worst (OMG! Sodomy! - which is exactly what I did) without having all that much evidence. Mimah nafshach, if you are sharing info, share a lot of it, if you aren't sharing info, share none of it.

[Dan]

https://x.com/Joelmpetlin/status/1818230094067876019

[michdude]

If there is suspicion of prisoner abuse it should be investigated.

There are many ways to investigate, and to bring suspects for questioning.

Given the circumstances, the way this was done was 100% WRONG (and even army brass are admitting to this).

A huge problem is the eagerness to placate the Hague prosecutors. They never learn, no matter what you do, the prosecutors and other antisemites will find a way to accuse and blame Israel of wrongdoing. The moral thing to do is enable the army to go full force without interruption, so that the war and suffering can end ASAP, and after the war investigate whatever suspicions or allegations come up.

And folks wonder why some of us are skeptical of the secular leaders of the state of Israel. They have mostly managed to mangle this entire war and continue to do so. Shooting themselves in the foot to placate the anti-semites over and over again. I love Eretz Yisroel but feel much distaste for the secular state of Israel. They are not an asset. (And no - I'm not neturei karta or anything close.)

[UKinNYS]

Breaking: IAF hitting Southern Beirut!

[TimT]

Breaking: IAF hitting Southern Beirut!

Targeted strike

[AsherO]

Breaking: IAF hitting Southern Beirut!

Target was Fuad Shukr, Hezbollah chief of staff. Successful mission, elimination not yet confirmed.

[jj1000]

Will the pilot get $5mm?

https://rewardsforjustice.net/rewards/fuad-shukr/

[AsherO]

https://x.com/idf/status/1818333771260690783

Target was Hezbollah chief of staff (Hezbollah top 5, some say #2). Huge if successful.

https://x.com/yoavgallant/status/1818337146731737419

[AsherO]

Will the pilot get $5mm?

https://rewardsforjustice.net/rewards/fuad-shukr/

You’re not the first with this joke:
https://x.com/yinonmagal/status/1818338435540636024