Eurovision: Eden Golan's October Rain/Hurricane In Malmo

[yelped]

I feel like people are talking over each other here and talking about two different things.

To throw in my 2 cents here. Any wine connoisseur will cringe when someone satisfies himself with cheap, flavored wine that has nothing to do with the essence of wine and is just a cheap imitation using strong additives to give flavor that has nothing to do with the real thing and does not have any of the refined ness of real wine. He will cringe even more when he loudly proclaims that this is much better and economical than real, aged wine and there is no need for the real wine.

When outsiders will label them as drunkards and perpetuators of ancient evil vices and attempt to ban any use of wine, you can bet that the wine connoisseur and the one who is satisfied with cheap wine-look-alike will join arms together  to fight against those who seek to besmirch them and will appreciate the presence of one another, even though the connoisseur feels (correctly) that the imitator is totally wrong with his choice of wine (knowingly or unknowingly, from lack of knowledge and finer taste).

Happens to be, I know nothing about wine, so forgive me if the analogy is not great, but you get the point.

The Jews who knows nothing about Judaism besides for their pride in the state of Israel, and are satisfied with being praised for a good performance at a show that we want nothing to do with, yet are proud that they are representing the state of Israel, which they know as being Jewish, even though we know that such a show is antithetical to Judaism and is exactly opposite of what we want to be proud of as Jews, the fact that they are proud of being Jews despite the hate directed at them because they are Jews, is still something that for them they should be proud of that they view themselves as Jews who are connected to each other. Yes, we know that this is not what being Jewish means, and it is Boiros Nishbiurim, and we know it is far from the real good stuff in life, but from their perspective they are proud to be "making us Jews proud" even though we know it has nothing to do with Judaism. They still feel a responsibility and a connection to us as Jews, and maybe we can use that opportunity to give them some tasters in real good wine.

[Just A Jew]

What does that even mean? Patrilineal descent? Genetic testing? If it means I’m a Jew and I’m different yes. If it simply means I’m proud to have been born a Jew as a Jewish Trans, a Jewish Atheist, a Jewish Cartel leader, a Jewish Cannibal, where is the value?  And if I go even further and make it my goal to strive to show that my being born Jewish is of no consequence because I’ve completely assimilated your culture and values so I’m really just like you and I’m on a mission to prove it, then where is the value in that pride?

I look at it a little more zoomed out than you do. You're looking at her as a singer who happens to be Jewish. Your emphasis of the pride is on the second part of Jewish "X" (singer, atheist, cannibal, etc.). What I see is pride on the Jewish part of that. Jewish Pride is solely in being Jewish. What a person is doing when they show that pride is largley irrelevant, as far as this particular situation goes (IMO).

For whatever reason, G-d saw value in bringing humans with Jewish souls down to this world. For some, the reason is more obvious: they are born into a Torah environment, and spend their lives striving to do Ratzon Hashem. For others, Hashem stuck them in far flung places and circumstances, where the chances of them being Torah observant are minimal, if at all. Yet, He still decided that not only their existence was necessary, but their existence with a Jewish soul was crucial. I know this, because had that not been His intention, they would not exist. If G-d places a value on their being Jewish, who am I to tell someone not to take pride in that?

[CountValentine]

Happens to be, I know nothing about wine, so forgive me if the analogy is not great, but you get the point.

I am trying but don't get the point.

[yelped]

I am trying but don't get the point.

Sorry, I hit post before (kind of) finishing.

[jye]

I look at it a little more zoomed out than you do. You're looking at her as a singer who happens to be Jewish. Your emphasis of the pride is on the second part of Jewish "X" (singer, atheist, cannibal, etc.). What I see is pride on the Jewish part of that. Jewish Pride is solely in being Jewish. What a person is doing when they show that pride is largley irrelevant, as far as this particular situation goes (IMO).

For whatever reason, G-d saw value in bringing humans with Jewish souls down to this world. For some, the reason is more obvious: they are born into a Torah environment, and spend their lives striving to do Ratzon Hashem. For others, Hashem stuck them in far flung places and circumstances, where the chances of them being Torah observant are minimal, if at all. Yet, He still decided that not only their existence was necessary, but their existence with a Jewish soul was crucial. I know this, because had that not been His intention, they would not exist. If G-d places a value on their being Jewish, who am I to tell someone not to take pride in that?

Even if he does not believe in G-d or the existence of said soul?

[Just A Jew]

Even if he does not believe in G-d or the existence of said soul?

Does G-d create things for no reason? Do you know the catalyst for his path to teshuva? I see value in someone acknowledging and taking pride in their Jewishness.

[imayid2]

Does G-d create things for no reason? Do you know the catalyst for his path to teshuva? I see value in someone acknowledging and taking pride in their Jewishness.

God does not “create people who do not believe in God or the soul”. That is a belief for which he grants free will.

[Just A Jew]

God does not “create people who do not believe in God or the soul”. That is a belief for which he grants free will.

Not sure the relevance here... I don't think it changes the reasoning for my opinion here.

[Dan]

So many Jews today are protesting against Israel on college campuses. R"L I have a Reform cousin in this sick anti-Israel boat.

When we have a Jew, who is dancing and alive when the Shliach to Malmo is singing Am Yisroel Chai while 100,000 protestors are outside ready to rip her limb from limb, we should celebrate it.

At least Eden has a strong connection with her nation. She will inspire others to do the same, and Gd willing, many of them will find Torah true Judaism. Or at least they'll seek out Chabad and have a Shabbos with kosher food when backpacking in Thailand. And if not, at least they're proud to be Jewish and not protesting against Jews, R"L.

What a sad philosophy to say that she can't be a proud Jew as a T"S that doesn't know any better.

It's good to be a Lubavitcher indeed if that's the alternative.

[AsherO]

Let's not go overboard over how a Jewish girl performing parts on Shabbos against Tznius is going to save us all.

I think any of Israel's victories of this form are a reminder of our strength as Jews and the potential we'd have if it was focused on torah and mitzvot (or at least expressed within the framework of yiddishkeit).

[jye]

we should celebrate it.

We do know better. We know that Israeli participation in Eurovision represents the antithesis of the relationship between Klal Yisrael and the umos and should not take pride or celebrate any aspect of it, even if she herself is a T”S and knew no better.

[Dan]

Wasn't put in quotations, and what another person calls a proud Jew isn't what we should call, luckily we know better.

No quotes either. IYKYK:

Thanks.
If I had more time, I would have written you a shorter letter!

[Dan]

We do know better. We know that Israeli participation in Eurovision represents the antithesis of the relationship between Klal Yisrael and the umos and should not take pride or celebrate any aspect of it, even if she herself is a T”S and knew no better.

What's your point? She stood as a proud Jew when 100,000 protestors wanted to tear her apart.

She is a Jew just as you and she has the right and indeed should be proud of that, even if she wasn't privileged to be born into it like you and me. The fault is in me for not yet impressing upon her the added beauty of Torah U'mitzvos. My job is thus to love her as a fellow Jew, thank her for her contributions, and hopefully one day be able to impress the beauty of Torah U'mitzvos to her through ahava, as taught by Aharon Hakohen.

[YitzyS]

Just today, I heard a great story from Rav Fischel Schachter about the difference between an Arab and a Jew.

A Jewish girl asked Rav Yaakov Galinsky why her father was okay with it when she dated a Jewish atheist, but was heartbroken when she was about to marry an Arab who believes in G-d.

"Because when there will be a war, that atheist will risk his life to defend your father, and that Arab will go to kill your father."

(A few years later, during the next war, the girl showed up at her father's door. Her husband has said that he's going to march into town and kill her father first. She remembered Rav Galinsky's words are realized how right he was, so she ran off...)

[Dan]

What's your point? She stood as a proud Jew when 100,000 protestors wanted to tear her apart.

She is a Jew just as you and she has the right and indeed should be proud of that, even if she wasn't privileged to be born into it like you and me. The fault is in me for not yet impressing upon her the added beauty of Torah U'mitzvos. My job is thus to love her as a fellow Jew, thank her for her contributions, and hopefully one day be able to impress the beauty of Torah U'mitzvos to her through ahava, as taught by Aharon Hakohen.

[jye]

Love all fellow Jews. Absolutely. Pride in their participation in the Eurovision contest. Not so much. Imagine if the chief Baal and Asheira priest in the times of old was a tinok shenishba. Love him yes. Hope to help him find the beauty of the Torahs ways. Definitely. But would it be appropriate to take pride in his accomplishments as a proud Jew?

[CountValentine]

Talk about snatching defeat from victory. This is just unbelievable.

[Dan]

Love all fellow Jews. Absolutely. Pride in their participation in the Eurovision contest. Not so much. Imagine if the chief Baal and Asheira priest in the times of old was a tinok shenishba. Love him yes. Hope to help him find the beauty of the Torahs ways. Definitely. But would it be appropriate to take pride in his accomplishments as a proud Jew?

You and others seem to be intentionally misconstruing what I wrote. I wrote what I wrote at the beginning and the end of the post with intention.
Your lip service for ahavas yisroel is just that and won't have its intended effect.

[luckyluck]

Isn't it good enough that some values conveyed by her song are respected by us all as Torah values, such as hope and perseverance and prayer?
Contrast that to the sometimes terrible values displayed by the culture of other nations.
Shouldn't we be proud that the Jewish artist/team haven't completely lost their moral compass, and were somewhat influenced through their soul, or upbringing, or environment, to still express some true values? And that on a stage where it's perceived by the whole world as a message from Israel or the Jewish nation.

[Dan]

It is from someone proclaiming כחי ועוצם ידי

I'm sure the כחי ועוצם ידי people are rolling over in their graves at a song representing Israel that says לא צריך מילים גדולות, רק תפילות. Same goes for Bibi publishing a picture of himself, davening in Moshiko's tefilin today.

When Chayalim are all lining up asking us for Moshiach patches, Chitas seforim and microfilms, and Tefillin, you know that just maybe, the Chabad approach isn't a bad one. We can cut off 95% of world Jewry and be ah tzaddik in peltz, or we can work to bring them back.