Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[imayid2]

As I thought. This is totally unrelated to the subject at hand discussing the neemanus of the Rav Hamachshir.

It is completely related to the subject at hand which is Rav Moshe’s opinion of עד אחד נאמן באיסורין.
And completely relevant to why it’s important to clarify the policies of a Kashrus organization.

[aygart]

It is completely related to the subject at hand which is Rav Moshe’s opinion of עד אחד נאמן באיסורין.
And completely relevant to why it’s important to clarify the policies of a Kashrus organization.

גזירה שוה?

[imayid2]

To be fair, as I have expressed previously, @avromie7 seems to be accurately portraying Rav Moshes opinion, and from what I’ve heard and seen, Rav Reuvain and Rav Dovid went with it all the way. More or less to the extent he’s described. He need not be held accountable to answer all the issues being raised.
That being said, it can be respectful stated that this opinion is unique, and not widely shared, for the reasons expressed by @Yehuda57 and others, and as seen from the תבואת שור, without being accused of bizayon hatorah.

[imayid2]

גזירה שוה?

דבר הלמד מענינו

[aygart]

and as seen from the תבואת שור

Explain how you see anything of the sort from there.

[imayid2]

Explain how you see anything of the sort from there.

Explain how you don’t see it.

[imayid2]

@aygart
 Is this statement “ In Kashrus matters we do not require the establishment of facts, we only require testimony that is trustworthy, the testimony of one who has nemanus. Therefore one may rely on an eid echad for Kashrus matters... We begin to realize that there is no advantage for one to tell his friend not to eat in a particular establishment... even if the Kashrus is questionable his friend won't suffer any ill effects if there is indeed a problem”
Compatible with the תבואת שור?

[aygart]

@aygart
 Is this statement “ In Kashrus matters we do not require the establishment of facts, we only require testimony that is trustworthy, the testimony of one who has nemanus. Therefore one may rely on an eid echad for Kashrus matters... We begin to realize that there is no advantage for one to tell his friend not to eat in a particular establishment... even if the Kashrus is questionable his friend won't suffer any ill effects if there is indeed a problem”
Compatible with the תבואת שור?

Yes for anyone other than the owner.

[imayid2]

Yes for anyone other than the owner.

Reb Reuvan says all the time he would go to anyone’s house and eat there. Is that compatible?

[Yehuda57]

Look upthread at what I posted from R' Reuven Feinstein. He doesn't say you need to clarify that the hechsher is up to your standard, he says if 1 eid tells you it's kosher he has ne'emanus. You can also look at the sources referenced in the footnotes, I didn't look at them today, but IIRC they should answer your question.

Are you talking about this?

See below from R' Reuven Feinstein.

If so, unless the footnotes (which I did not check) do, it does not address what I was talking about.

Here's a different question in a similar vein. There is a product sold in many kosher stores with a generally accepted hechsher. I've heard from multiple sources from different hechsherim that while they do usually trust this hechsher, this product is problematic for various reasons. This product is on tables of people I trust without needing a teshuvah from R' Moshe - not the kind of people I referenced in my previous posts. They know halacha, they may even keep stricter standards than I do, but are unaware of the issues with this specific product. Do I tell them what I've heard about the product if I think they would want to be aware? Or do I let them remain an anus because tainting their neemanus in that hechsher will ruin ahavas yisroel?

I see and understand the idea that would she be trusting of each other. I don't see (in your post) that that would apply in instances we have information that neemanus is based on ignorance of halacha or metzius.

[aygart]

Reb Reuvan says all the time he would go to anyone’s house and eat there. Is that compatible?

yes.
I can't even figure out why you think otherwise.

[imayid2]

Yes for anyone other than the owner.

So to be clear, you don’t think the תבואת שור would have a problem with allowing someone to go to an establishment, or consume a product with a hechsher, which you happen to know just isn’t kosher?

[aygart]

which you happen to know just isn’t kosher?

where did you get this part from?

[imayid2]

@aygart
 We begin to realize that there is no advantage for one to tell his friend not to eat in a particular establishment...  if the Kashrus is questionable his friend won't suffer any ill effects if there is indeed a problem”
Compatible with the תבואת שור?

where did you get this part from?

What’s really the difference?
Also what’s up with this whole cherem that they made?, just let everyone trust people and you’ll be fine. They don’t seem to share the sentiment that it’s all cool if it turned out it’s treif.
Regardless, my point stands independently of the תבואת שור.

[aygart]

What’s really the difference?
Also what’s up with this whole cherem that they made?, just let everyone trust people and you’ll be fine. They don’t seem to share the sentiment that it’s all cool if it turned out it’s treif.
Regardless, my point stands independently of the תבואת שור.

Wait, did you understand this referring to a case where you know the kashrus to be questionable?

I don't understand your question about the cherem.

What exactly is your point and what does it stand on?

[imayid2]

Wait, did you understand this referring to a case where you know the kashrus to be questionable?

Explain the difference.

[aygart]

Explain the difference.

between what and what.

[imayid2]

Wait, did you understand this referring to a case where you know the kashrus to be questionable?

(Sorry misunderstood)
Yes.

[aygart]

(Sorry misunderstood)
Yes.

I did not. I don't see how someone can be neeman about something you know not to be true. It doesn't seem to me that anyone else understood it the way you did. This has nothing at all to do with the tevuos Shor either.

[aygart]

(Sorry misunderstood)
Yes.

@avromie7 is this how you understood it?