Topic Wiki

The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

Please do not delete anything from this wiki.  If you disagree with an opinion, feel free to post your own. If you disagree with a fact--well, that's your opinion, and feel free to post it under opinions!

Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Poll

Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?

Yes (Shot)
121 (37.6%)
Yes (Nasal Spray)
5 (1.6%)
No
196 (60.9%)

Total Members Voted: 320

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 549966 times)

Online CountValentine

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3020 on: November 19, 2022, 08:34:09 PM »
I guess we differ on equating getting the flu to being in a bad accident.
We probably look at the probabilities differently also without even considering risk vs reward.
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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3021 on: November 19, 2022, 08:47:42 PM »
Why does the CDC say it has a 40-60% efficacy rate if it has an average of less than 40% for the past 10 years?

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3022 on: November 19, 2022, 08:49:24 PM »
Why does the CDC say it has a 40-60% efficacy rate if it has an average of less than 40% for the past 10 years?
Past results are not predictive of future results.
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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3023 on: November 19, 2022, 08:50:40 PM »
Past results are not predictive of future results.
Ok so let them say 19-60. Why 40-60?

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3024 on: November 19, 2022, 08:54:21 PM »
Ok so let them say 19-60. Why 40-60?
It is based on predictions. IIRC this shot will cover 4 variants.
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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3025 on: November 19, 2022, 10:41:22 PM »
The dominant strain this season is H3N2 for which the vaccine has a much lower efficacy rate.

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3026 on: November 19, 2022, 10:42:27 PM »
The dominant strain this season is H3N2 for which the vaccine has a much lower efficacy rate.
The season didn't really even start yet, has it?

"Both the influenza A(H3N2) and the influenza B(Victoria lineage) vaccine virus components were updated."
« Last Edit: November 19, 2022, 10:49:46 PM by CountValentine »
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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3027 on: November 19, 2022, 10:43:35 PM »
H3N2 for which the vaccine has a much lower efficacy rate.
Link?
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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3028 on: November 19, 2022, 10:45:04 PM »
https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/lot-release/influenza-vaccine-2022-2023-season

The committee recommended that the quadrivalent formulation of egg-based influenza vaccines for the U.S. 2022-2023 influenza season contain the following:

an A/Victoria/2570/2019 (H1N1)pdm09-like virus;
an A/Darwin/9/2021 (H3N2)-like virus;
a B/Austria/1359417/2021-like virus (B/Victoria lineage); and
a B/Phuket/3073/2013-like virus (B/Yamagata lineage).

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3029 on: November 19, 2022, 10:46:57 PM »
https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/lot-release/influenza-vaccine-2022-2023-season

The committee recommended that the quadrivalent formulation of egg-based influenza vaccines for the U.S. 2022-2023 influenza season contain the following:

an A/Victoria/2570/2019 (H1N1)pdm09-like virus;
an A/Darwin/9/2021 (H3N2)-like virus;
a B/Austria/1359417/2021-like virus (B/Victoria lineage); and
a B/Phuket/3073/2013-like virus (B/Yamagata lineage).
They try to target it but it’s less efficient

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3030 on: November 19, 2022, 10:48:15 PM »
Link?
On the CDC website where they explain vaccine efficacy. Don’t have the exact url this second

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3031 on: November 19, 2022, 10:49:54 PM »
H3N2 for which the vaccine has a much lower efficacy rate.
On the CDC website where they explain vaccine efficacy. Don’t have the exact url this second
Strong words to post without good sourcing. It's already impressive that they predicted H3N2 and included it in the vaccine for this season.
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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3032 on: November 19, 2022, 10:52:07 PM »
Strong words to post without good sourcing. It's already impressive that they predicted H3N2 and included it in the vaccine for this season.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/vaccineeffect.htm#why_flu_vax_less_effective_against_H3N2
Why is flu vaccine typically less effective against influenza A(H3N2) viruses?
There are a number of reasons why flu vaccine effectiveness against influenza A(H3N2) viruses may be lower.

While all flu viruses undergo frequent genetic changes, the changes that have occurred in influenza A(H3N2) viruses have more frequently resulted in differences between the virus components of the flu vaccine and circulating influenza viruses (i.e., antigenic change) compared with influenza A(H1N1) and influenza B viruses. That means that between the time when flu viruses are selected to begin producing vaccines and when flu vaccines are delivered, A(H3N2) viruses are more likely than A(H1N1) or influenza B viruses to have changed in ways that could impact how well the flu vaccines work.
Growth in eggs is part of the production process for most seasonal flu vaccines. While all influenza viruses undergo changes when they are grown in eggs, changes in influenza A(H3N2) viruses tend to be more likely to result in antigenic changes compared with changes in other influenza viruses. These so-called “egg-adapted changes” are present in vaccine viruses recommended for use in vaccine production and may reduce their potential effectiveness against circulating influenza viruses. Other vaccine production technologies, e.g., cell-based vaccine production or recombinant flu vaccines, do not use eggs in vaccine production to avoid egg-adapted changes to the viruses used to make vaccines. CDC also is using advanced molecular techniques to improve flu vaccines.
Top of Page
How effective are flu vaccines in older adults?
In numerous studies since 2010, flu vaccines have helped protect older adults against influenza. Flu vaccination has reduced the risk of medically attended illness caused by A(H1N1) or influenza B viruses by more than 60% among people 65 years and older (1). Flu vaccines also have reduced the risk of flu hospitalization among adults 65 years and older due to A(H1N1) and influenza B(2). However, protection against influenza A(H3N2) viruses has been less consistent. On average, flu vaccines have reduced the risk of doctor visits for people with A(H3N2) flu by 24% and reduced the risk of hospitalization with A(H3N2) flu by 33% in adults 65 years and older (1,2). During seasons when the H3N2 vaccine component has been well-matched to the flu viruses circulating in the community, the benefit from flu vaccination has been higher. During these seasons, flu vaccine reduced the risk of hospitalization with A(H3N2) flu by 43% on average (2). But when the vaccine component was less similar to viruses in the community, the protection has dropped to 14% (2).For older adults, some studies have shown that some newer vaccines (the high-dose inactivated vaccine, the adjuvanted inactivated vaccine, and the recombinant influenza vaccine) might be more effective than standard-dose inactivated vaccines without an adjuvant. Because flu viruses and effectiveness of flu vaccines can vary from one season to another, it isn’t known whether any one of these vaccines will always be more effective in every flu season.

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3033 on: November 19, 2022, 11:27:23 PM »
It's already impressive that they predicted H3N2 and included it in the vaccine for this season.
I believe it is included in the vaccine every flu season.


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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3036 on: November 20, 2022, 10:14:30 AM »
@biobook Summary?
CONCLUSIONS:
From this pooled individual patient–level data analysis, we found reduced effectiveness of LAIV4 (The Nasal Spray Flu Vaccine) against influenza A/H1N1pdm09 compared with IIV, which is consistent with published results from the individual studies included.
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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3037 on: November 21, 2022, 01:48:50 PM »
@biobook Summary?
Limited computer access.  Will try later.

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3038 on: November 22, 2022, 12:55:04 AM »
@biobook Summary?
Five earlier studies had found that the nasal spray vaccine and the injected inactivated flu vaccine were equally effective against two types of flu virus (B and A H3N2), but the nasal spray vaccine was less effective against H1N1. Those earlier studies were based on small groups (1000-6000 children each) which didn't reach statistical significance, so these researchers reanalyzed the data as a combined group of 17000 and reached the same conclusion, this time statistically significant.

It had been suggested that the relatively low effectiveness of flu vaccines might somehow result from repeated annual vaccinations, but analysis of this data found no support for that.  Those who came down with flu were no more likely to have been vaccinated the previous year than those who didn't.

Vaccine manufacturers try to improve the vaccine every year, so after seeing these results from the 2009-2015 years, they based the 2017-2018 vaccine on different variants, and the spray vaccine was more effective in 2017-2018 (according to preliminary analyses cited in this 2019 publication).

Some might think that 40% vaccine effectiveness is too low to make it worthwhile, but it's not negligible. If the chances of winning the lottery were 40%, everyone would participate.


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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3039 on: November 22, 2022, 12:59:57 AM »
Some might think that 40% vaccine effectiveness is too low to make it worthwhile, but it's not negligible. If the chances of winning the lottery were 40%, everyone would participate.
Is it 40% effective against H3N2?