George Zimmerman

[Moshe123]

Thats not a good sign for them.

They're desperate. It was an "Obama's son" incited trial.

[MarkS]

Off their rockers: Prosecutors seek 'child abuse' charge

"Oh my God. Just when I thought this case couldn’t get any more bizarre,”

Craziness. While I do think the Judge is being fair, it's not smart that West has been so argumentative with her over the past few days.

[U-no-me!]

Craziness. While I do think the Judge is being fair, it's not smart that West has been so argumentative with her over the past few days.

The judge has been clearly biased to the prosecution through this whole case. Did you see her testy totaly uncalled for exchange with the defendant yesterday? Any unbuased judge would of acquited the defendant already not (what she's doing) bring the possibility of lesser charges into this caes.

[CountValentine]

Any unbuased judge would of acquited the defendant already not (what she's doing) bring the possibility of lesser charges into this caes.

Can I put you down as being biased towards the defendant?   

[U-no-me!]

Can I put you down as being biased towards the defendant?   

I believe he's innocent, if that's your question.

[Ergel]

I believe he's innocent, if that's your question.

That's the result of the answer to his question. Not his question

[CountValentine]

I believe he's innocent, if that's your question.

That's the result of the answer to his question. Not his question

No way should the judge have acquitted him already. Lesser charges added after the fact is not uncommon.

[henche]

No way should the judge have acquitted him already. Lesser charges added after the fact is not uncommon.

I think she should have. I don't think the evidence presented could lead any reasonable person to be sure beyond reasonable doubt that it wasn't self defense. Maybe someone could think it "more likely than not", but not beyond reasonable doubt.

[CountValentine]

I think she should have. I don't think the evidence presented could lead any reasonable person to be sure beyond reasonable doubt that it wasn't self defense. Maybe someone could think it "more likely than not", but not beyond reasonable doubt.

I don't believe it was self defense but many would say I am not a reasonable person. 

[MarkS]

Wow! She won't let the defense include in the instructions that it's not illegal to follow someone! She wanted them to quote a law saying that it's not illegal as opposed to requiring the prosecution to prove that there is such a law!

She just told West off for being so argumentative. I really think it's hurting him (and Zimmerman) that he's doing that. Where's O'Mara?

She told them they're welcome to appeal the ruling if he is found guilty.

That's like when you get a ticket that's not warranted and the officer just tells you to present your argument to the judge without letting you argue your side to him...

[springles]

Prosecutors looking for the lesser charge of manslaughter was both expected and smart. But the idea of bringing in child abuse seems desperate to me and hurts their credibility.  To me its like saying, "look, we cant get him on any of the murder charges because we dont have the evidence but at least let us punish him a little."

[henche]

I don't believe it was self defense but many would say I am not a reasonable person. 

That's fine. I'm not saying you have to believe it was self defense. Just that you can't reasonably be sure that it wasn't.

[CountValentine]

West has been a -1 from day one.

[henche]

Wow! She won't let the defense include in the instructions that it's not illegal to follow someone! She wanted them to quote a law saying that it's not illegal as opposed to requiring the prosecution to prove that there is such a law!

She just told West off for being so argumentative. I really think it's hurting him (and Zimmerman) that he's doing that. Where's O'Mara?

She told them they're welcome to appeal the ruling if he is found guilty.

That's like when you get a ticket that's not warranted and the officer just tells you to present your argument to the judge without letting you argue your side to him...

I think her bias is enough to be reversible, even without all the outrageous rulings she's made.

O'mara has been trying to stay out of the arguments, so that she'll like him on his final args.

[CountValentine]

That's fine. I'm not saying you have to believe it was self defense. Just that you can't reasonably be sure that it wasn't.

That is what the trial is for but I see your point.

[Ergel]

That's fine. I'm not saying you have to believe it was self defense. Just that you can't reasonably be sure that it wasn't.

I here you, but I'm not sure juries always decide based on that.

[henche]

Right. It is what the trial is for, and generally the job of the jury is to decide facts. But there is a legal standard that if "no reasonable person could conclude", then we overrule the jury (even after they decided), and also just chuck it before hand.

In civil cases, that is called summary judgment. I'm not sure what it's called in criminal cases, but I'm sure it's called something.

[CountValentine]

Is the threat of eminent danger what a reasonable person would expect or the mindset of the defendant at the time?

[henche]

I don't recall but I'm guessing you need both.

Edit: You need both. But, if you think so and it is unreasonable, then in some states it will be voluntary manslaughter.

[zale]

I don't believe it was self defense but many would say I am not a reasonable person. 

A gunshot wound expert testified that Trayvon Martin was ON TOP of George Zimmerman when he was shot. This proves self-defense beyond any reasonable doubt.

This, in addition to the fact that other witnesses testified that they saw Trayvon on top.