Author Topic: Zionist Mindset  (Read 6299 times)

Offline avadah

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Zionist Mindset
« on: February 26, 2014, 09:43:28 AM »
Can someone please explain this to me?
How can someone that's not religious lay claim to Israel because it says in the Torah it belongs to the Jews if they anyways don't keep the Torah?

Offline george

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2014, 09:49:20 AM »
Does this bother you more than the Reform and Conservative movements? They, too, pick and choose what parts of the Torah they wish to follow.

Offline avadah

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2014, 09:53:06 AM »
The truth is I never thought of it but it's still not much of a claim if it's based on something you can pick and choose what you want to keep.

Offline satturn

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2014, 09:53:51 AM »
because it says in the Torah

is that their reason? I think its a jewish homeland due to jewish residency over the years. (not saying i agree)

This is only a question on secular zionists, on RZ it would not be an issue.

Offline george

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2014, 09:54:32 AM »
Basically the answer to your question is: because they WANT to.

Offline meshugener

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2014, 09:58:29 AM »
Can someone please explain this to me?
How can someone that's not religious lay claim to Israel because it says in the Torah it belongs to the Jews if they anyways don't keep the Torah?
Because it's their land. Always been.
Love me or hate me. I still love you.

Offline george

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2014, 10:01:38 AM »
Because it's their land. Always been.
That's another good answer.

Offline avadah

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2014, 10:23:55 AM »
Because it's their land. Always been.
If not for the Torah how do you know? The Palestinians also claim that.

Offline meshugener

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2014, 10:25:22 AM »
If not for the Torah how do you know? The Palestinians also claim that.
its a fact
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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2014, 10:29:35 AM »
If not for the Torah how do you know? The Palestinians also claim that.
They can claim what they want, they have not a shred of evidence to back that up...
Curiosity made the cat smarter.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2014, 10:30:58 AM »
Actually, Herzl SR"Y was fine with a jewish homeland in Uganda.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2014, 10:31:33 AM »

This is only a question on secular zionists, on RZ it would not be an issue.
The irony is that the RZ who were seen as tag-alongs in the beginning are basically the only Zionists around these days, secular Zionism is dead.
Curiosity made the cat smarter.

Offline george

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2014, 10:31:39 AM »
Actually, Herzl SR"Y was fine with a jewish homeland in Uganda.
Irrelevant.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2014, 10:31:56 AM »
The non jews are correct, its the first Rashi in the torah!
Listim atem!


Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2014, 10:34:54 AM »
In the beginning: Said Rabbi Isaac: It was not necessary to begin the Torah except from “This month is to you,” (Exod. 12:2) which is the first commandment that the Israelites were commanded, (for the main purpose of the Torah is its commandments, and although several commandments are found in Genesis, e.g., circumcision and the prohibition of eating the thigh sinew, they could have been included together with the other commandments). Now for what reason did He commence with “In the beginning?” Because of [the verse] “The strength of His works He related to His people, to give them the inheritance of the nations” (Ps. 111:6). For if the nations of the world should say to Israel, “You are robbers, for you conquered by force the lands of the seven nations [of Canaan],” they will reply, "The entire earth belongs to the Holy One, blessed be He; He created it (this we learn from the story of the Creation) and gave it to whomever He deemed proper When He wished, He gave it to them, and when He wished, He took it away from them and gave it to us.
    
בראשית: אמר רבי יצחק לא היה צריך להתחיל [את] התורה אלא (שמות יב ב) מהחודש הזה לכם, שהיא מצוה ראשונה שנצטוו [בה] ישראל, ומה טעם פתח בבראשית, משום (תהלים קיא ו) כח מעשיו הגיד לעמו לתת להם נחלת גוים, שאם יאמרו אומות העולם לישראל לסטים אתם, שכבשתם ארצות שבעה גוים, הם אומרים להם כל הארץ של הקב"ה היא, הוא בראה ונתנה לאשר ישר בעיניו, ברצונו נתנה להם וברצונו נטלה מהם ונתנה לנו: