Dating in the jewish world while disabled

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Why cant people just mind their side of the fence? Critical of this and that, this one is a [fill in the blank], I dont like [fill in the blank]. Name calling.

What are you really angry about?

**ducks and runs**

Let's not start;)  I'm not angry about anything haha. But the article crux was ignored. She converted to Judaism. Let's just assume the rest of society is the same, we are supposed to be different. Further, she makes a valid point, she ruled out 98% of eligible guys.

[yitzgar]

Just because she got dates before she was Jewish, that doesn't mean any of those people would've been willing to marry her. As far as marriage is concerned,  it's possible that nothing changes. All that changed, (presumably), is that she no longer has dates, which in the frum world is all about getting married, not hanging out, so that's part of the commitment of becoming Jewish anyway

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Just because she got dates before she was Jewish, that doesn't mean any of those people would've been willing to marry her. As far as marriage is concerned,  it's possible that nothing changes. All that changed, (presumably), is that she no longer has dates, which in the frum world is all about getting married, not hanging out, so that's part of the commitment of becoming Jewish anyway

You're right, it's all her fault.

As for me, I don't blame god for my problems, just stupid judgemental humans. She can't get dates because people don't want to marry her, I feel for her.

I'm way over that, I'm happy to have friends with benefits, who needs conceited judgmental people.

[yitzgar]

You're right, it's all her fault.

As for me, I don't blame god for my problems, just stupid judgemental humans. She can't get dates because people don't want to marry her, I feel for her.

I'm way over that, I'm happy to have friends with benefits, who needs conceited judgmental people.

I'm not sure where you saw that  I said it was her fault. What I said was that becoming Jewish doesn't seem to me to be the source of her problems. Regardless, you don't have to fly off the handle and call anyone conceited, stupid or judgemental for no reason

[chevron]

I'm not sure where you saw that  I said it was her fault. What I said was that becoming Jewish doesn't seem to me to be the source of her problems. Regardless, you don't have to fly off the handle and call anyone conceited, stupid or judgemental for no reason

Read the article again. #1 she says her odds as a Jew are lower. Then #2 she takes to task those judging off the cuff about disability and how that's not the Jewish concept.

I thought people wanted to build a home and have kids etc, why would they rule her out at the beginning.

So yes,maybe the Jewish dating is to blame, you can't get to know someone first, before you meet someone you already ran a kgb report on them.

[Denverite]

Let's not start;)  I'm not angry about anything haha. But the article crux was ignored. She converted to Judaism. Let's just assume the rest of society is the same, we are supposed to be different. Further, she makes a valid point, she ruled out 98% of eligible guys.

Oh where do I start? First @chevron I’m very sorry you have had to face so many challenges and I hope you get the Koach to keep fighting the good fight for your health and emotional wealth-being and I hope you find your bashert soon (and that when you meet her you give her a chance and don’t immediately discard her based on some kind of snap judgement). 

I definitely agree with @yitzgar but I’m gonna take it even farther into non-pc territory.  As a woman, for me just looking at her picture and hearing her written “voice,” there are so many other issues going on here that the disability is just a small part. Listen, everything we do is sending signals one way or another. She made all this effort to become a frum Jew and then in her picture for a magazine article she flips her skirt up (and I’m pretty modern in my dress like her).  Even in the not-frum world that is weird and childish to do...wtf, fix your dress!  Her expression, posture and everything is oozing “you better take me exactly as I am or eff off” in that picture...

And I’m sorry but what she wrote was asinine as well. She clearly said she has had plenty of non-shidduch dating with guys she knew before and they all chose to break up with her. When she wrote  “And some simply couldn’t handle the tzaddik (righteous person) status many placed on them for having the chesed (kindness) enough to love me” I literally LOL’d because either these guys who are her friends who she likes to date are total pompous douche bags to come up with an excuse like that or she is projecting some weird, angry crap here. Again, I’m not saying that she isn’t going to have a tougher than average time but that doesn’t mean you can spout inanities.

I happen to know two couples where one spouse is disabled (one is parapeligic), the other is not and they both met on shidduchim. Granted in those cases the disabled spouse is male so that probably does make a difference but I think that is just because men in general care more about looks.

I’m not FFB and most of my single girlfriends weren’t either and so we didn’t expect to necessarily do the normal frummie shidduchim thing but we got married because we were open people (and that includes overweight girls, not really attractive girls, etc). I would go on a first date with almost anyone (even guys who were older, less educated, divorced, etc., etc.) although I’ll admit the married and pedophile dudes probably help give her this attitude...that’s messed up)!  I met my husband at a Shabbat dinner and a couple shadchanim that knew both of us told us later that they would have never set us up because he’s Sephardic and I’m Ashkenazi but I don’t hate them, I just had to meet him another way (AND be open to our differences).

I’m truly sorry she has had to go through such pain. I hope she can get over her anger.  Anger is unattractive in anyone and the worst thing for any marriage, because finding someone to marry you is only the beginning and then you actually have to try to be a mature person and giving spouse!

[chevron]

Thanks denverite.

But I'm just using her and the article as an example. I never used matchmakers or bothered with online dating.

A close friend of mine who is a shliach, hounded me to date a girl, maybe it was a good match but the way it was presented was that I have problems and she does and hey 2 pieces to the puzzle.

Well you ever do a puzzle and 2 pieces are alike at first but don't fit?

I'm just turned off in general to get offers simply because I may be considered disabled and so is she.

It's insulting and offensive to both of them.

meanwhile, while the world was often cruel to me when I was young, thank god I thrive amongst hundreds of friends (if I said thousands, the ddf police will call me out..  But somehow I feel I have thousands of friends?!)

You guys thankfully don't have these challenges, I'll be honest here, there's not enough tears in the world to describe being in shull on rosh hashana, in your head you hear them singing the daled bavos, you hear the bracha, and you hear the shofar blast and it's all in your head.

Can you imagine what it's like putting on tefillen when you've #1 lost coordination in your right hand, still considered a halachik righty, have 2 large tumors in the palm of your left hand, drop your Shel rosh when putting it on your hand and crying to god when saying shema because still, still with all this you love god bechol levavcha, bechol nafshecha, bechol meodecha.

These are real every day struggles I went through. Thank god I got my hearing back, I got the tumors out.

But the struggles between man and god I can't change, those are intimate. I love god, we fight, we make up.

But the struggles of humanity, that's bs. Judaism evolves around marriage and having kids and building a home.

Why, why should I put myself in the court of public opinion, I do it here for the odd shits and giggles or to express opinions but why would someone disabled reality disabled or not have to be dragged in public.

So, I'm sure my soul mate is out there, I know I have a lot to offer, great wine is certainly one of them, but hell no I'd never go date random blind dates or get near a matchmaker, I'm not a curiosity circus.

[Dan]

Maybe I'm confused, but if you're ruling out a disabled person outright, isn't that just as hypocritical as you're making others out to be?
Can your soulmate not be disabled?

[Yammer]

Yes and no.  Bad choices of doctors and bad surgical procedures to remove tumors left my face scarred. I could fix it with more surgery but at this point I'm just tired of it all. If that was a factor of attraction and something I needed to fix, it would be my responsibility to fix it.

Years of untreated spinal stenosis and bad lifestyle choices made me very weak. I owned up to it, insurance didn't cover physical therapy, I didn't get to gym. I pay for after care rehab 3 times a week and there are other people there fighting for a better life. ..

im sympathetic to people's challenges,but I would not be attracted to that.

I'm sorry to see that you've gone through so much and wish you a full recovery.

The way how I see it why it's more a Jewish issue then a secular issue is because in the Orthodox Jewish world we approach marriage in a formal way and there is no REAL connection before marriage. In the secular world you can just fall in love with somebody for no good reason, and of course, you fall OUT fo love faster for that same reason. An average Joe has 7 partners in his lifetime.

I believe that this answers your question .

Yes marriage has a very different meaning to us Jews. And while we can go into detail of every sector. ( FE chassidiahe ppl they all have their firm beliefs on their marriage Arrangements that no one can understand how ppl live like that.) Bottom line is, ppl do more research when setting up a date beforehand.

[sky121]

She implies that by converting she limits her prospects. That is true.

But from my experience, I find religious jewish women to be more picky about this.

This may also be because when you meet someone you like you're more open to saying yes even if you see or find out they have a disability and with many Jewish women they are just being told about a person so they're just saying no to the disability and not the guy necessarily.
I can imagine how hard this is.
Women and men say no for far sillier things than disabilities unfortunately so it's no surprise.

[sky121]

This may also be because when you meet someone you like you're more open to saying yes even if you see or find out they have a disability and with many Jewish women they are just being told about a person so they're just saying no to the disability and not the guy necessarily.
I can imagine how hard this is.
Women and men say no for far sillier things than disabilities unfortunately so it's no surprise.

Reading further into the thread I see this was spoken about.

[saw50st8]

Shidduch dating is all about attempting to cherry pick the traits you want in a spouse. In a system where superficial things are really important (like the color of your table cloth), why wouldn't you expect a disability to be a big deal? It's basically about matching up the deficits each person brings to the table to keep an even score.  Although I do think the shidduch world is pretty ridiculous when it comes to attempting matches. Someone redt a blind man to my deaf sister. She wasn't against the match because he was blind but boy would that make life complicated for them! My sister ended up marrying a wonderful (hearing) man.

She does make it seem like that's solely the reason she isn't married. I have plenty of FFB, thin, beautiful friends with great jobs and who aren't disabled who are single too.

[gingyguy]

Shidduch dating is all about attempting to cherry pick the traits you want in a spouse. In a system where superficial things are really important (like the color of your table cloth), why wouldn't you expect a disability to be a big deal? It's basically about matching up the deficits each person brings to the table to keep an even score.  Although I do think the shidduch world is pretty ridiculous when it comes to attempting matches. Someone redt a blind man to my deaf sister. She wasn't against the match because he was blind but boy would that make life complicated for them! My sister ended up marrying a wonderful (hearing) man.

She does make it seem like that's solely the reason she isn't married. I have plenty of FFB, thin, beautiful friends with great jobs and who aren't disabled who are single too.

and like i said i know more than 1 frum person with a a disability that  married a perfectly healthy person .

[chevron]

Maybe I'm confused, but if you're ruling out a disabled person outright, isn't that just as hypocritical as you're making others out to be?
Can your soulmate not be disabled?

I said it depends what. Or who the woman was etc. But honestly, I've spent too much of my life in hospitals and doctors etc I just want it to be done for.

But I never ruled it out,i merely find offense that offers to date center around other disabled people. It underlines the fact that they aren't taking me seriously, obviously these are generally not close friends and they are nice but they are basically saying "oh you've got this issue, oh yeah let's put you in the back with all the others with issues "

Eff that,i love my life. I'm happy, I don't need that bs so, like the writer, I don't date.

[Yehuda57]

Yes and no.  Bad choices of doctors and bad surgical procedures to remove tumors left my face scarred. I could fix it with more surgery but at this point I'm just tired of it all. If that was a factor of attraction and something I needed to fix, it would be my responsibility to fix it.

Years of untreated spinal stenosis and bad lifestyle choices made me very weak. I owned up to it, insurance didn't cover physical therapy, I didn't get to gym. I pay for after care rehab 3 times a week and there are other people there fighting for a better life. ..

im sympathetic to people's challenges,but I would not be attracted to that.

You think anyone who is overweight is just too lazy or disinterested to diet and exercise?

[skyguy918]

I said it depends what. Or who the woman was etc. But honestly, I've spent too much of my life in hospitals and doctors etc I just want it to be done for.

But I never ruled it out,i merely find offense that offers to date center around other disabled people. It underlines the fact that they aren't taking me seriously, obviously these are generally not close friends and they are nice but they are basically saying "oh you've got this issue, oh yeah let's put you in the back with all the others with issues "

Eff that,i love my life. I'm happy, I don't need that bs so, like the writer, I don't date.

I'm no defender of shadchanim (I'm sure there are good ones and bad ones), but I don't think they're pushing the issue on disabilities. I think in this instance they're probably in line with what people actually want. Which is to say that it's a nice idea to push for people to keep an open mind, but it's not a simple thing for an able bodied individual to take on a life together with a spouse with a disability (though obviously the specifics of the disability matter greatly).

[chevron]

You think anyone who is overweight is just too lazy or disinterested to diet and exercise?

No, I dont.  I said im critical, dating wise at least. I'd be sympathetic otherwise. I feel the same way for deaf people that dont get hearing implants.

[chevron]

I'm no defender of shadchanim (I'm sure there are good ones and bad ones), but I don't think they're pushing the issue on disabilities. I think in this instance they're probably in line with what people actually want. Which is to say that it's a nice idea to push for people to keep an open mind, but it's not a simple thing for an able bodied individual to take on a life together with a spouse with a disability (though obviously the specifics of the disability matter greatly).

That answers what @Dan asked me and in my case even more so. I overcame everything, I would not want to have another disability to deal with.

[aygart]

That answers what @Dan asked me and in my case even more so. I overcame everything, I would not want to have another disability to deal with.

Then you should understand why someone who did not need to deal with all that wouldn't want to get started with it either.

[saw50st8]

I think shidduchim is one of the few places it is ok to discriminate. No person should have to compromise if they don't want to. It doesn't matter how superficial it is or what others think. I've read some people's lists of requirements and thought they were pretty crazy but it isn't my life to lead.

That being said, I can empathize with how tough it must be to be "different" in some way in the shidduch world.