Vaccine Discussion Master Thread

[YankyDoodle]

A few points... As has been mentioned numerous times, seizures are not a "normal" reaction but they are also not life threatening nor do they have detrimental long-term effects. @ Wayfe, you keep mentioning the risk of increased febrile seizures following a vaccine induced febrile seizure. Do you have a source to back that up? The study you quoted originally seems fairly confident that there are no serious detrimental long-term effects that they were able to find.

@ Wayfe (again) did you read the portion of that NIH study that discussed what happened in Sweden after they stopped DTP? What are your thoughts on that? Please don't pick and choose when to be scientific in your analysis of health risk vs benefit.

Lastly, they started using TDaP years ago (started in Japan) for this exact reason (adverse effects such as seizures, redness, swelling etc). the aP (acellular pertussis) is not a live bacteria as compared to (whole cell) pertussis.

I have no problem with parents making their own decisions and having eyes wide open about risks, but when you have organizations putting out blatant lies (like PEACH) and you have people making medical decisions that effect all of us as a society without any significant scientific data it rubs me the wring way.

Just so we're clear, there are many vaccines that have been produced that pharmaceutical companies have invested $$$$$ into that are no longer on the market. Either as a result of their severe side effects or because they did not cure what they were purported to cure. Doctors do not benefit from hurting & lying to their patients!

[henche]

Did you know that the US has a federal agency whose purpose is to pay compensation to people who are harmed by vaccines?
http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/vaccine-programoffice-special-masters

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_VACCINE_COURT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-11-17-13-24-36

What else don't you know?

[YankyDoodle]

Did you know that the US has a federal agency whose purpose is to pay compensation to people who are harmed by vaccines?
http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/vaccine-programoffice-special-masters

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_VACCINE_COURT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-11-17-13-24-36

What else don't you know?

This was set up because the lawsuits (by your colleagues) were so costly and time consuming that the vaccine manufacturers all but closed up shop. In an attempt to keep vaccine production active the government created a court that would be able to keep the risk towards pharmaceutical companies to a relatively fixed amount (not unlike the need for tort reform in order to keep doctors in risky fields within their state).

It takes years to build a tower but mere minutes to tear it down. Find causative proof that vaccines risk outweighs their reward and the majority of doctors and society will buy in, otherwise it is easy to cast aspersions on an entity that happens to be given around the time that children begin to display developmental disabilities (for all we know Gerber baby cereal is a cause of autism).

[henche]

The court pays out 42% of claims. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_court

That's a pretty high number considering all the claims are frivolous. No?

[aygart]

The court pays out 42% of claims. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_court

That's a pretty high number considering all the claims are frivolous. No?

who ever said that all are frivolous?

[YankyDoodle]

who ever said that all are frivolous?

Dont ttack the straw-man it's one of their go-to's (not hence he's just trolling for fun).

[henche]

Dont ttack the straw-man it's one of their go-to's (not hence he's just trolling for fun).

Straw man? When did a doctor ever tell you about any risk from vaccines? (besides your arm being sore or feeling a bit off for a day) We were given an entire brochure about how there are no risks.

I've seen it stated many times that there are "no risks." 

But, since you're disavowing that--tell me all about these injuries caused by vaccines that are being compensated by this agency, with a payout rate of 42% of all claims filed.

[elit]

Dont ttack the straw-man it's one of their go-to's (not hence he's just trolling for fun).

I don't think he's trolling i think he just had a kid and all the shots they're giving the baby is making him rethink his stance 😁

[henche]

I don't think he's trolling i think he just had a kid and all the shots they're giving the baby is making him rethink his stance 😁

We actually even asked for an extra vaccine. We wanted the RSV because he was early. But they said it is too expensive and the insurance companies won't cover it. They also said it isn't technically a vaccine--they actually inject the antibodies themselves instead of stimulating your body to make them.

But yes, it does make me uncomfortable the number of things they want to stick you with, and the way the things they tell you don't always quite add up.  My pediatrician starts giving vaccines only after 2 months. Why only after 2 months I asked them? They said that's when the baby's immune system starts working. Ok, but why not just give them earlier just in case? Is it more dangerous? Ok, so my baby is six weeks early, so do we go by gestational age like other developmental milestones? No, all babies at 2 months. Hmmm. So but the NICU wanted to give him Hep B before he left (in case he was molested?)--why don't they want to wait 2 months?

You kind of end up feeling like there's stuff they don't think you are trusted enough to know. I'm a lawyer. I'm on a need to know basis, and I always need to know.

[Barryg]

We actually even asked for an extra vaccine. We wanted the RSV because he was early. But they said it is too expensive and the insurance companies won't cover it. They also said it isn't technically a vaccine--they actually inject the antibodies themselves instead of stimulating your body to make them.

But yes, it does make me uncomfortable the number of things they want to stick you with, and the way the things they tell you don't always quite add up.  My pediatrician starts giving vaccines only after 2 months. Why only after 2 months I asked them? They said that's when the baby's immune system starts working. Ok, but why not just give them earlier just in case? Is it more dangerous? Ok, so my baby is six weeks early, so do we go by gestational age like other developmental milestones? No, all babies at 2 months. Hmmm. So but the NICU wanted to give him Hep B before he left (in case he was molested?)--why don't they want to wait 2 months?

You kind of end up feeling like there's stuff they don't think you are trusted enough to know. I'm a lawyer. I'm on a need to know basis, and I always need to know.

So are you totally on the quack side as far as the hep B vax -at the hospital- for frum familes? (Next up for Q would be chicken pox)

[aygart]

The court pays out 42% of claims. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_court

That's a pretty high number considering all the claims are frivolous. No?

did you read the article that you linked to?

[henche]

So are you totally on the quack side as far as the hep B vax -at the hospital- for frum familes? (Next up for Q would be chicken pox)

Yes, I'm full quack on that one. And obviously also for HPV.

[Barryg]

PSA... Don't forget to take Vitamin D supplements...

[henche]

PSA... Don't forget to take Vitamin D supplements...

?

[thaber]

?

The court pays out 42% of claims. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_court

That's a pretty high number considering all the claims are frivolous. No?

CA courts find in the applicant's favor in 97% of cases.  97%. Does anyone really think that all those employers are stupid enough to lie and then let it get to trial? The findings of the court in compensation cases are no proof at all.

[henche]

CA courts find in the applicant's favor in 97% of cases.  97%. Does anyone really think that all those employers are stupid enough to lie and then let it get to trial? The findings of the court in compensation cases are no proof at all.

Employers? What's that got to do with it.

[thaber]

Employers? What's that got to do with it.

Frivolous Medical claims are the common denominator

[henche]

Frivolous Medical claims are the common denominator

Sorry, I'm not getting your point. Maybe I missed the first step. What does "CA" stand for? California?

[aygart]

This is especially so when the court has lower standards of evidence as stated in the quoted ap article.

[thaber]

Sorry, I'm not getting your point. Maybe I missed the first step. What does "CA" stand for? California?

Yes. 
My point is that the fact that a court recognizes a medical claim doesn't make it true. Doctors recognizing it does.  Regardless of whether you like the mashal, the point stands.