Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons

[Yehuda57]

Don't you have to sprikle water on me or something?

That's already been done

ETA: WHOOPS! Sorry guys, did I give it all away?

[Yehuda57]

If he got a real Yanover from Italy during the war, I'll become chabad

Ummm, what's going to be your burden of proof on this one?

[henche]

Ummm, what's going to be your burden of proof on this one?

Depends. What will be your burden of proof that I became chabad?

[henche]

During WWII the rebbe was in paris. he asked a rov for a heter to endanger himself for hiddur mitzvah. a few days later he was back in paris with a yanover esrog (and a 2nd one for the rov)

I'm going to insist on the freidiker having gotten one in America.

[gozalim]

הרב מפריז זצ"ל (בהוצאת מכון למוד אגדה, תשע"ג, ע' שנט): "בזמן המלחמה, ברח הרבי תחילה מפריז לעיר וישי, ומשם המשיך לעיר ניצה, שם שהה תקופה ארוכה בצוותא עם הגרש"י, והם אף התפללו בתקופה זו באותובית כנסת. בחודש תשרי תש"א, פנה הרבי אל הגרש"י, והחל לברר אתו יחד, את האפשרויות להשגת ארבעה מינים לחג הסוכות, וכן את מידת החובה של מסירות נפש למצוה בכלל, ולהידור מצוה בפרט. השיחה קלחה והובאו ראיות לכאן ולכאן, ובסיום נראה היה הדבר כבלתי מוכרע. בימים הבאים , שם לב הגרש"י שהרבי לא נמצא בשטח, וכעבור כמה ימים הופיע הרבי אצל הרב כשפניו קורנות כזוהר חמה, ובידיו שני אתרוגים מהודרים "קלבריים" כמנהג חב"ד, האחד כשי להגרש"י. מסתבר כי הרבי נסע בדרכים לא דרכים, אל עבר המטעים הקרובים לקווי המלחמה ליד גבול איטליה, ותוך סיכון עצמי רב, השיג אתרוגים אלו לקיום המצוה בהידור. יצויין כי איטליה היתה אז בת ברית של גרמניה". ראה כאן. http://shturem.net/images/news/75827_news_30102014_6287.pdf#page=3

תיאור דומה של הסיפור עם פרטים מהדיון ההלכתי נמצאים ג"כ בספר 'הרבי בפריז' (בהוצאת חיש, תשע"ה, ע' 170): "שאל הרבי את הגאון הרב שמואל יעקב רובינשטיין ע"ה . . האם מותר לסכן את עצמו בשביל הידור מצוה. השיב הרב רובינשטיין שמבחינת ההלכה, ישנם שלושה דברים שעליהם מצווים למסור את הנפש, עבודה זרה, שפיכות דמים וגילוי עריות, ואתרוג מהודר לא כלול בזה. הרבי ענה שזה רק בימים כתיקונם, אבל בימים של גזירות יש ענין של "ערקתא דמסאנא", והרבי לא איפשר לרב רובינשטיין לפסוק לאיסור, וזה נשאר בלי החלטה".
הסיפור בכללותו סופר ג"כ לJEM כאן  http://www.chabad.org/1974187/

[aygart]

No thought police in Lubavitch!

Just like Google.

[ExGingi]

During WWII the rebbe was in paris. he asked a rov for a heter to endanger himself for hiddur mitzvah. a few days later he was back in paris with a yanover esrog (and a 2nd one for the rov)

That says nothing about 1942-1944.

[ExGingi]

Just like Google.

Nah. Google sounds more like Lakewood when it comes to thought police.

[ExGingi]

During WWII the rebbe was in paris. he asked a rov for a heter to endanger himself for hiddur mitzvah. a few days later he was back in paris with a yanover esrog (and a 2nd one for the rov)

Not about esrogim, but regarding the messirus nefesh where not necessarily required according to Halacha listen to the story the Rebbe tells here (starts at about 8:00)

[gozalim]

That says nothing about 1942-1944.

If he got a real Yanover from Italy during the war, I'll become chabad

didn't say 1942

[ExGingi]

didn't say 1942

That's only if you want to take it out of context, as previously @henche posted:

I'm gonna hazard he didn't get a real yanover in 1942

While I was the one to put that year in context of the war

I am trying to find out what actually happened during the war.

Which ended up in change of terminology used for the discussion.

[aygart]

Nah. Google sounds more like Lakewood when it comes to thought police.

How so? Google claims to be open!

[henche]

anyway, that's the wrong rebbe. The rebbe who was rebbe in 1942 was in the U.S.

[gozalim]

anyway, that's the wrong rebbe. The rebbe who was rebbe in 1942 was in the U.S.

As was his son in law (by summer 1941. the above story would have been Sukkos תש"א)

[chbochur]

If this can be relied upon ( he is qouting igros though so it should be good...)

[ExGingi]

anyway, that's the wrong rebbe. The rebbe who was rebbe in 1942 was in the U.S.

I don't know about "becoming chabad", but I find it very hard to believe a Lubavitcher would use such a term, regardless of context.

[ExGingi]

So there you have it in writing 1941-1944 Esrogim from EY were used
for the 1942 original source see http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=31603&st=&pgnum=61
I looked up the source he cites for 1941, but that one only thanks for Esrogim, doesn't unequivocally spell out that they were used for a ברכה (though it is highly likely based on what it says there).

If this can be relied upon ( he is qouting igros though so it should be good...)

[henche]

So there you have it in writing 1941-1944 Esrogim from EY were used
for the 1942 original source see http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=31603&st=&pgnum=61

(runs and pulls shaver back out of garbage)

[ExGingi]

(runs and pulls shaver back out of garbage)

That the Rebbe used on Esrog from EY during the war, isn't a reason for שמד, ר"ל.   

[chaimmayer]

Are you sure Benny has smicha?
He was in my program but he didn't get ordained with us...

According to Wikipedia he got it
He earned rabbinic ordination and worked as a Chabad shaliach in Tucson, Arizona for several years.[3]
 Bensoussan, Barbara. "Speaking to the Soul: Rabbis Manis and Benny Friedman use their talents to awaken the pintele Yid". Mishpacha Special Supplement: "A Father to Follow". Pesach 5771 (Spring 2011), pp. 18–25.