Topic Wiki

One line summary:
Areivim USA is a dignified way to give צדקה. It is not Life Insurance and doesn't guarantee any sort of financial protection to its members. it is registered as a religious organization and as such isn't required to incur the additional cost of preparing and filing form 990 with the IRS.

http://www.areivim.info/rform.php

Eb228
Quote
I spoke to Areivim at length as I sell life insurance and wanted to best advise ppl that had Areivim already and wanted to supplement it with LI.
I was told that it has never happened that Areivim declined to pay out based on someones assets or LI. It has happened that the family told them they don't need the money, but they never told the family no.
Simple reasoning is, they also think that 100K per yasom doesn't really cover it, the program just won't allow for a higher payout at $28/ monthly. So they encourage everyone to have LI as well to make sure kids are adequetly covered, and owning LI does not disqualify a payout [unless each kid will receive over a million dollars etc].



Quote
They are tax exempt. Click on the below IRS link and then download the first attachment. Then search "Areivim USA"

https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/tax-exempt-organization-search-bulk-data-downloads


This (I have been to a few Areivim meeting with these Rabbonim)

Harav Elya Brudny, Rosh Yeshivas Mir Flatbush;
Harav Yitzchok Isaac Eichenstein, Galanter Rav;
Harav Doniel Geldzahler, Rosh Yeshivas Ohr Yisrael;
Harav Binyomin Zev Landau, Tosher Dayan of Boro Park;
Harav Henoch Shachar, Rav of Klal Ohr Tuvia in Lakewood

Areivim Terms and Conditions (emphasis added):
Quote
4) Areivim USA is not life insurance. Areivim USA has been established primarily as a charitable endeavor and its halachic status is like that of all tzedakah money collected from the public. In the event of a the passing of a member rĒl, all contributions can be made with maaser money.

5) In the event of (G-d forbid) a large number of deaths among members (as a result of a war, an earthquake, etc.), Areivim USA reserves the right to consult with its Rabbinical Board on proper procedures.

6) Members have no rights to sue or submit legal claims against the decisions of Areivim USA or its Rabbinical Board, including for failure to initiate a collection. There are no oral agreements or other commitments between Areivim USA and its members, and no such oral agreements or commitments shall be given any legal effect.

« Last edited by ExGingi on May 30, 2021, 11:11:03 AM »

Poll

Do you have Areivim & Life Insurance? (NOTE: Areivim is not life insurance)

Yes
49 (70%)
Only Areivim
21 (30%)

Total Members Voted: 70

Author Topic: Areivim USA - Coronavirus  (Read 142929 times)

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 30634
  • Total likes: 7932
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #240 on: May 03, 2020, 06:34:11 AM »
. (Members who risk getting paid out vs members solely giving tzedaka.)

If the family with $4mm in life insurance collected, Iím not sure which widow of someone ďsolely giving TzedakahĒ wonít have the same need.

Also, does Arevim pay out to Almanim who RĒL lost their wives? If they do then theyíre assuming double the risk because they have to cover both (or either of both) spouses.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline Drago

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 8389
  • Total likes: 75
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 18
    • View Profile
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #241 on: May 03, 2020, 06:48:50 AM »
They are tax exempt. Click on the below IRS link and then download the first attachment. Then search "Areivim USA"

https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/tax-exempt-organization-search-bulk-data-downloads

Anyway to check their annual 990 (or whatever is in its place) submission to the IRS? That'll answer the questions regarding their collections/payouts/expenses.

Not seeing anything come up when searching.

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5054
  • Total likes: 6394
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #242 on: May 03, 2020, 07:03:41 AM »
If the family with $4mm in life insurance collected, Iím not sure which widow of someone ďsolely giving TzedakahĒ wonít have the same need.

I was referring to single members with no kids yet or older members who have married off all their kids. If they are the tzedaka they market themselves as and not LI, they should have significant membership from both demographics.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 30634
  • Total likes: 7932
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #243 on: May 03, 2020, 07:09:34 AM »
I was referring to single members with no kids yet or older members who have married off all their kids. If they are the tzedaka they market themselves as and not LI, they should have significant membership from both demographics.

Somehow Iím skeptical. Without any transparency weíll never know.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline Drago

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 8389
  • Total likes: 75
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 18
    • View Profile
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #244 on: May 03, 2020, 07:18:26 AM »
Regarding the question of maaser, wouldn't this be similar to chinese auctions where the potential of benefiting is also quite low but must be taken into account?
I recall hearing that the expected value of the benefit needs to be deducted from the amount donated, but i could be sorely mistaken.

For example, assuming both spouses are 35 years old, and have 5 children (500k payout), and the annual mortality rate for the male if 0.04% and 0.03% for the female, their expected benefit at age 35 is approx $350, and they've paid $28*12 = $336 in premiums/donations.

So in this case, wouldn't there be no maaser to write off, or am I making a mistake in my estimate?

edit: seems like there are differing opinions when it comes to chinese auctions. Saw a good summary here.
https://dinonline.org/2012/06/27/buying-lottery-ticket-with-maaser-money/
« Last Edit: May 03, 2020, 07:30:44 AM by Drago »

Offline mgarfin

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 2571
  • Total likes: 294
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #245 on: May 03, 2020, 08:23:06 AM »
A question that always bothers me the most when judging areivim, how many of those would of had life insurance if not for this organization?

a prominent askin told me there is over 40 niftorim from coved that left behind unmarried children, that have no lLI or areivim

Offline JACKBLUE

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 2402
  • Total likes: 401
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
  • Location: USA
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #246 on: May 03, 2020, 08:31:51 AM »
A question that always bothers me the most when judging areivim, how many of those would of had life insurance if not for this organization?

a prominent askin told me there is over 40 niftorim from coved that left behind unmarried children, that have no lLI or areivim
Why is this Areivimís problem? They clearly say that itís not LI itís Tzedaka.
In fact youíre right about the 40 Niftorim, only 16 had Areivim.

Offline Drago

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 8389
  • Total likes: 75
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 18
    • View Profile
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #247 on: May 03, 2020, 08:32:15 AM »
A question that always bothers me the most when judging areivim, how many of those would of had life insurance if not for this organization?

a prominent askin told me there is over 40 niftorim from coved that left behind unmarried children, that have no lLI or areivim
It's a good point, and a reason that Rabbanim and askanim should be strongly promoting ppl purchasing LI in order to protect their families.

Offline JACKBLUE

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 2402
  • Total likes: 401
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
  • Location: USA
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #248 on: May 03, 2020, 08:33:30 AM »
No חס ושלום.
I am just for someone with ďfirstĒ hand experience of receiving $$$$ from them. Iíve been trying to find am almana that was able to confirm to me personally, with no success.
PM me and Iíll give you a contact of an Almona that her husband had LI and she got $100K for each unmarried child and $100K for herself no questions asked within a few weeks of her husbands Petira.

Offline JACKBLUE

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 2402
  • Total likes: 401
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
  • Location: USA
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #249 on: May 03, 2020, 08:36:44 AM »
It's a good point, and a reason that Rabbanim and askanim should be strongly promoting ppl purchasing LI in order to protect their families.
Lemasa, all these people that the community raised letís say $250K (which is more to the high side of all those campaigns) letís say that person left behind 3 children he would of gotten from Areivim $400K and no one would even know that person name, instead now everyone knows this guys wife by face and all their children are now embarrassed to go on the street because all of the videos going around of them crying by the Levaya etc........

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5054
  • Total likes: 6394
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #250 on: May 03, 2020, 08:42:03 AM »
Lemasa, all these people that the community raised letís say $250K (which is more to the high side of all those campaigns) letís say that person left behind 3 children he would of gotten from Areivim $400K and no one would even know that person name, instead now everyone knows this guys wife by face and all their children are now embarrassed to go on the street because all of the videos going around of them crying by the Levaya etc........

All of this can also be avoided with proper LI. He makes a very good point.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline mgarfin

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 2571
  • Total likes: 294
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #251 on: May 03, 2020, 08:44:52 AM »
Why is this Areivimís problem? They clearly say that itís not LI itís Tzedaka.
In fact youíre right about the 40 Niftorim, only 16 had Areivim.

The 40 I'm referring to is without the 17 that had Areivim

What it comes to show, is the argument that people would have purchased life insurance if not for Areivim it's not the case for most

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 30634
  • Total likes: 7932
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #252 on: May 03, 2020, 08:45:12 AM »
Lemasa, all these people that the community raised letís say $250K (which is more to the high side of all those campaigns) letís say that person left behind 3 children he would of gotten from Areivim $400K and no one would even know that person name, instead now everyone knows this guys wife by face and all their children are now embarrassed to go on the street because all of the videos going around of them crying by the Levaya etc........

What percentage of Arevimís recipients donít have/need crowdfunding campaigns? My guess is the $100k/orphan is a pittance and theyíre going to need a lot more. You canít market Arevim as mitigating the crowdfunding if the payouts arenít enough to mitigate it.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline mgarfin

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 2571
  • Total likes: 294
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #253 on: May 03, 2020, 08:46:14 AM »
By the way over 300 orphaned children in the last wave
Only 88 had Areivim

Offline mgarfin

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 2571
  • Total likes: 294
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #254 on: May 03, 2020, 08:48:22 AM »
What percentage of Arevimís recipients donít have/need crowdfunding campaigns? My guess is the $100k/orphan is a pittance and theyíre going to need a lot more. You canít market Arevim as mitigating the crowdfunding if the payouts arenít enough to mitigate it.

That's why life insurance with Areivim is the way to go. So at your high point where you have many children unmarried and a million dollar policy won't cover funds will be raised in a dignified manner

Offline JACKBLUE

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 2402
  • Total likes: 401
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
  • Location: USA
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #255 on: May 03, 2020, 08:50:57 AM »
That's why life insurance with Areivim is the way to go. So at your high point where you have many children unmarried and a million dollar policy won't cover funds will be raised in a dignified manner
Exactly what Iím trying to bring out here. Donít know whatís so hard to understand 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 30634
  • Total likes: 7932
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #256 on: May 03, 2020, 08:51:26 AM »
That's why life insurance with Areivim is the way to go. So at your high point where you have many children unmarried and a million dollar policy won't cover funds will be raised in a dignified manner

I bet you more of the 17 had crowdfunding campaigns than life insurance, especially when LI doesnít preclude crowdfunding.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline JACKBLUE

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 2402
  • Total likes: 401
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
  • Location: USA
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #257 on: May 03, 2020, 08:52:30 AM »
All of this can also be avoided with proper LI. He makes a very good point.
Exactly it CAN, but unfortunately weíre seeing so many without LI so at least have Areivim.

Offline Drago

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 8389
  • Total likes: 75
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 18
    • View Profile
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #258 on: May 03, 2020, 08:54:21 AM »
Lemasa, all these people that the community raised letís say $250K (which is more to the high side of all those campaigns) letís say that person left behind 3 children he would of gotten from Areivim $400K and no one would even know that person name, instead now everyone knows this guys wife by face and all their children are now embarrassed to go on the street because all of the videos going around of them crying by the Levaya etc........
I'm not knocking it, it has it's place as long as it's kept in its proper context and seems like it can do good

just trying to stress the importance that our leadership should be pushing LI as well, as it's more secure, gives flexibility for differing amounts that will fulfill the needs of families in different situations, and will also avoid the need of shaming the recipient.

iirc, here in Israel, (most of) the chareidi politicians got the government to heavily subsidize LI for avreichim recently. Perhaps this is s/t that the tzibbur in the US could create as well.

http://lifeinisrael.blogspot.com/2019/06/life-insurance-for-avreichim-finally.html

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 30634
  • Total likes: 7932
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Areivim USA - Coronavirus
« Reply #259 on: May 03, 2020, 08:55:51 AM »
Exactly it CAN, but unfortunately weíre seeing so many without LI so at least have Areivim.

Youíre burning the candles on both ends now.

On the one hand you say Arevim is a supplement to LI and informed Arevim should have LI, OTOH you say at least theyíll have Arevim.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)