Areivim USA - Coronavirus

[AsherO]

. (Members who risk getting paid out vs members solely giving tzedaka.)

If the family with $4mm in life insurance collected, I’m not sure which widow of someone “solely giving Tzedakah” won’t have the same need.

Also, does Arevim pay out to Almanim who R”L lost their wives? If they do then they’re assuming double the risk because they have to cover both (or either of both) spouses.

[Drago]

They are tax exempt. Click on the below IRS link and then download the first attachment. Then search "Areivim USA"

https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/tax-exempt-organization-search-bulk-data-downloads

Anyway to check their annual 990 (or whatever is in its place) submission to the IRS? That'll answer the questions regarding their collections/payouts/expenses.

Not seeing anything come up when searching.

[Lurker]

If the family with $4mm in life insurance collected, I’m not sure which widow of someone “solely giving Tzedakah” won’t have the same need.

I was referring to single members with no kids yet or older members who have married off all their kids. If they are the tzedaka they market themselves as and not LI, they should have significant membership from both demographics.

[AsherO]

I was referring to single members with no kids yet or older members who have married off all their kids. If they are the tzedaka they market themselves as and not LI, they should have significant membership from both demographics.

Somehow I’m skeptical. Without any transparency we’ll never know.

[Drago]

Regarding the question of maaser, wouldn't this be similar to chinese auctions where the potential of benefiting is also quite low but must be taken into account?
I recall hearing that the expected value of the benefit needs to be deducted from the amount donated, but i could be sorely mistaken.

For example, assuming both spouses are 35 years old, and have 5 children (500k payout), and the annual mortality rate for the male if 0.04% and 0.03% for the female, their expected benefit at age 35 is approx $350, and they've paid $28*12 = $336 in premiums/donations.

So in this case, wouldn't there be no maaser to write off, or am I making a mistake in my estimate?

edit: seems like there are differing opinions when it comes to chinese auctions. Saw a good summary here.
https://dinonline.org/2012/06/27/buying-lottery-ticket-with-maaser-money/

[mgarfin]

A question that always bothers me the most when judging areivim, how many of those would of had life insurance if not for this organization?

a prominent askin told me there is over 40 niftorim from coved that left behind unmarried children, that have no lLI or areivim

[JACKBLUE]

A question that always bothers me the most when judging areivim, how many of those would of had life insurance if not for this organization?

a prominent askin told me there is over 40 niftorim from coved that left behind unmarried children, that have no lLI or areivim

Why is this Areivim’s problem? They clearly say that it’s not LI it’s Tzedaka.
In fact you’re right about the 40 Niftorim, only 16 had Areivim.

[Drago]

A question that always bothers me the most when judging areivim, how many of those would of had life insurance if not for this organization?

a prominent askin told me there is over 40 niftorim from coved that left behind unmarried children, that have no lLI or areivim

It's a good point, and a reason that Rabbanim and askanim should be strongly promoting ppl purchasing LI in order to protect their families.

[JACKBLUE]

No חס ושלום.
I am just for someone with “first” hand experience of receiving $$$$ from them. I’ve been trying to find am almana that was able to confirm to me personally, with no success.

PM me and I’ll give you a contact of an Almona that her husband had LI and she got $100K for each unmarried child and $100K for herself no questions asked within a few weeks of her husbands Petira.

[JACKBLUE]

It's a good point, and a reason that Rabbanim and askanim should be strongly promoting ppl purchasing LI in order to protect their families.

Lemasa, all these people that the community raised let’s say $250K (which is more to the high side of all those campaigns) let’s say that person left behind 3 children he would of gotten from Areivim $400K and no one would even know that person name, instead now everyone knows this guys wife by face and all their children are now embarrassed to go on the street because all of the videos going around of them crying by the Levaya etc........

[Lurker]

Lemasa, all these people that the community raised let’s say $250K (which is more to the high side of all those campaigns) let’s say that person left behind 3 children he would of gotten from Areivim $400K and no one would even know that person name, instead now everyone knows this guys wife by face and all their children are now embarrassed to go on the street because all of the videos going around of them crying by the Levaya etc........

All of this can also be avoided with proper LI. He makes a very good point.

[mgarfin]

Why is this Areivim’s problem? They clearly say that it’s not LI it’s Tzedaka.
In fact you’re right about the 40 Niftorim, only 16 had Areivim.

The 40 I'm referring to is without the 17 that had Areivim

What it comes to show, is the argument that people would have purchased life insurance if not for Areivim it's not the case for most

[AsherO]

Lemasa, all these people that the community raised let’s say $250K (which is more to the high side of all those campaigns) let’s say that person left behind 3 children he would of gotten from Areivim $400K and no one would even know that person name, instead now everyone knows this guys wife by face and all their children are now embarrassed to go on the street because all of the videos going around of them crying by the Levaya etc........

What percentage of Arevim’s recipients don’t have/need crowdfunding campaigns? My guess is the $100k/orphan is a pittance and they’re going to need a lot more. You can’t market Arevim as mitigating the crowdfunding if the payouts aren’t enough to mitigate it.

[mgarfin]

By the way over 300 orphaned children in the last wave
Only 88 had Areivim

[mgarfin]

What percentage of Arevim’s recipients don’t have/need crowdfunding campaigns? My guess is the $100k/orphan is a pittance and they’re going to need a lot more. You can’t market Arevim as mitigating the crowdfunding if the payouts aren’t enough to mitigate it.

That's why life insurance with Areivim is the way to go. So at your high point where you have many children unmarried and a million dollar policy won't cover funds will be raised in a dignified manner

[JACKBLUE]

That's why life insurance with Areivim is the way to go. So at your high point where you have many children unmarried and a million dollar policy won't cover funds will be raised in a dignified manner

Exactly what I’m trying to bring out here. Don’t know what’s so hard to understand 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[AsherO]

That's why life insurance with Areivim is the way to go. So at your high point where you have many children unmarried and a million dollar policy won't cover funds will be raised in a dignified manner

I bet you more of the 17 had crowdfunding campaigns than life insurance, especially when LI doesn’t preclude crowdfunding.

[JACKBLUE]

All of this can also be avoided with proper LI. He makes a very good point.

Exactly it CAN, but unfortunately we’re seeing so many without LI so at least have Areivim.

[Drago]

Lemasa, all these people that the community raised let’s say $250K (which is more to the high side of all those campaigns) let’s say that person left behind 3 children he would of gotten from Areivim $400K and no one would even know that person name, instead now everyone knows this guys wife by face and all their children are now embarrassed to go on the street because all of the videos going around of them crying by the Levaya etc........

I'm not knocking it, it has it's place as long as it's kept in its proper context and seems like it can do good

just trying to stress the importance that our leadership should be pushing LI as well, as it's more secure, gives flexibility for differing amounts that will fulfill the needs of families in different situations, and will also avoid the need of shaming the recipient.

iirc, here in Israel, (most of) the chareidi politicians got the government to heavily subsidize LI for avreichim recently. Perhaps this is s/t that the tzibbur in the US could create as well.

http://lifeinisrael.blogspot.com/2019/06/life-insurance-for-avreichim-finally.html

[AsherO]

Exactly it CAN, but unfortunately we’re seeing so many without LI so at least have Areivim.

You’re burning the candles on both ends now.

On the one hand you say Arevim is a supplement to LI and informed Arevim should have LI, OTOH you say at least they’ll have Arevim.