Author Topic: The Sky Is Falling! Yet Another Variant  (Read 11551 times)

Offline AsherO

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Re: The Sky Is Falling! Yet Another Variant
« Reply #120 on: November 30, 2021, 10:33:00 AM »
I literally quoted a post where you questioned if you were looking at the right tweet...

Here, try this one instead.

Big hollow words. He's had every opportunity to develop a plan (a luxury Trump certainly didn't have), and isn't that far ahead.

To be fair, considering even the world's greatest epidemiologists and ID experts are doing the best they can with extraordinary international governmental support, I don't think a different president would do much better. Keep in mind a lot of the issue here is the American people's collective mindset and the political divide that predates COVID, neither of which can be magically fixed overnight by any extent of leadership.

The one thing I'd say could certainly have been improved in both the Trump and Biden White House, is better, more consistent, and less political communication. A better leader could do that, but ironcally they're even less likely to get nominated/elected in today's climate.

P.s. I think it's time to split this tangent off to a new thread in the politics board.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: The Sky Is Falling! Yet Another Variant
« Reply #121 on: November 30, 2021, 10:33:58 AM »
Yes you are missing something as that is not the tweet we are discussing.

Right, that was the tweet about the China travel ban which apologists pulled out because it doesn't mention travel bans specifically and can be twisted. But the truth is everyone knows he was against the travel bans because the entire left side of the political spectrum was. It is not a controversial or arguable position to say that Biden or anyone on the left who made any sort of public statements was against the travel bans through March of 2020. This is the whole point of this discussion, it was a political position, not a public health position.

The same works for the other side as well, of course. But this thread is about the current policies as they relate to the Kulula variant.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: The Sky Is Falling! Yet Another Variant
« Reply #122 on: November 30, 2021, 10:37:13 AM »

Again you are missing the point. I was having a discussion with another member and asked if we were talking about the same tweet. He agreed we were.

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Offline CountValentine

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Re: The Sky Is Falling! Yet Another Variant
« Reply #123 on: November 30, 2021, 10:38:52 AM »
P.s. I think it's time to split this tangent off to a new thread in the politics board.
News flash!!! This whole thread is political.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline yesitsme

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Re: The Sky Is Falling! Yet Another Variant
« Reply #124 on: November 30, 2021, 10:40:59 AM »
Am I missing something or did nobody else see this tweet?
Psaki explained that already,
Here is different the dems are in control and covid is spreading

Offline Euclid

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Re: The Sky Is Falling! Yet Another Variant
« Reply #125 on: November 30, 2021, 11:15:30 AM »
News flash!!! This whole thread is political.
That's on OP for titling the thread this way.

Offline aygart

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Re: The Sky Is Falling! Yet Another Variant
« Reply #126 on: November 30, 2021, 12:33:03 PM »
News flash!!! This whole board is political.

FTF @ExGingi
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Abey

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Re: The Sky Is Falling! Yet Another Variant
« Reply #127 on: December 01, 2021, 09:12:44 AM »
This thread reinforces something Ive heard recently that most Americans nowadays view the economy as good or bad based on how much they liked the admin in power not the other way around (how it used to be) seems to be the case with Covid as well.

Facts: Closures were/are considered a reasonable strategy to stave off infections,Trump combined that with hate against China which I believe spilled over to Asians in general. Bidens criticism of the policy can be interpreted as criticism of trumps attitude OR the policy but his tweets condemning the policy are wrong. Now with the theory above most people will still view it as wrong or right based on their pre liking of Biden or not and thats why he will never apologize for criticizing the policy, his supporters will believe he didnt do anything wrong.

Now how to break out of this cycle ???

Offline Something Fishy

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Re: The Sky Is Falling! Yet Another Variant
« Reply #128 on: December 01, 2021, 09:18:44 AM »
Check out my site for epic kosher adventures: Kosher Horizons

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: The Sky Is Falling! Yet Another Variant
« Reply #129 on: December 01, 2021, 10:33:29 AM »
This thread reinforces something Ive heard recently that most Americans nowadays view the economy as good or bad based on how much they liked the admin in power not the other way around (how it used to be) seems to be the case with Covid as well.

Facts: Closures were/are considered a reasonable strategy to stave off infections,Trump combined that with hate against China which I believe spilled over to Asians in general. Bidens criticism of the policy can be interpreted as criticism of trumps attitude OR the policy but his tweets condemning the policy are wrong. Now with the theory above most people will still view it as wrong or right based on their pre liking of Biden or not and thats why he will never apologize for criticizing the policy, his supporters will believe he didnt do anything wrong.

Now how to break out of this cycle ???

I hope you realize that even your "facts" are tinged heavily by your personal politics.
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Offline Euclid

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Re: The Sky Is Falling! Yet Another Variant
« Reply #130 on: December 01, 2021, 10:35:39 AM »
The world isn't reacting to the cases that she's personally seen - they're reacting to the possible (huge) threat that the mutation is showing in labs, and they're awaiting real data (which should be coming within the next couple of weeks) - the small sample size that she's dealt with isn't significant statistically. Seems like she's missing some nuance and/or context.


Also, just because someone chanced upon something first doesn't make them a voice of expertise.

Offline Abey

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Re: The Sky Is Falling! Yet Another Variant
« Reply #131 on: December 01, 2021, 10:36:46 AM »
I hope you realize that even your "facts" are tinged heavily by your personal politics.
How so ?

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: The Sky Is Falling! Yet Another Variant
« Reply #132 on: December 01, 2021, 11:09:15 AM »
How so ?


Facts: Closures were/are considered a reasonable strategy to stave off infections
Firstly, it's pretty broad, what closures are you referring to? But either way, there is still plenty of debate about the efficacy of lockdown strategies, not to mention that even were this to be unanimously accepted, that wouldn't mean everyone agrees that the benefits of such strategies would outweigh the costs.
 
Trump combined that with hate against China
Again, I'm inclined to agree that Trump is a racist xenophobe, but that's my personal belief. Back in Jan 2020 when all sides and media were naming the virus "the Wuhan virus" or "The Wuhan cold" and the like, that wasn't hate against China, but when Trump did it it was?
which I believe spilled over to Asians in general.
So this part isn't a fact, it is a personal opinion, but the fact it is adjacent to is not tinged by your opinion?

Bidens criticism of the policy can be interpreted as criticism of trumps attitude OR the policy
Really? There's plenty of statements out there from that time, and the cumulative effect cannot honestly be interpreted that way

but his tweets condemning the policy are wrong.
In your opinion
Now with the theory above most people will still view it as wrong or right based on their pre liking of Biden or not and thats why he will never apologize for criticizing the policy, his supporters will believe he didnt do anything wrong.

Now how to break out of this cycle ???
There is no need to apologize for getting something wrong about a new virus no one knew anything about if your opinions were based on data and the knowledge available at the time. If your opinion was based on politics, however, then you would need to try wiggle your way out of your earlier positions instead of saying "we now have many more months and millions of cases worth of data, and many worlds more knowledge and as such have changed our positions."
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: The Sky Is Falling! Yet Another Variant
« Reply #133 on: December 01, 2021, 01:11:41 PM »
This thread reinforces something Ive heard recently that most Americans nowadays view the economy as good or bad based on how much they liked the admin in power not the other way around (how it used to be) seems to be the case with Covid as well.

Facts: Closures were/are considered a reasonable strategy to stave off infections,Trump combined that with hate against China which I believe spilled over to Asians in general. Bidens criticism of the policy can be interpreted as criticism of trumps attitude OR the policy but his tweets condemning the policy are wrong. Now with the theory above most people will still view it as wrong or right based on their pre liking of Biden or not and thats why he will never apologize for criticizing the policy, his supporters will believe he didnt do anything wrong.

Now how to break out of this cycle ???
Until the nutcases on both sides acknowledge what is going on the cycle will continue.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline CountValentine

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Re: The Sky Is Falling! Yet Another Variant
« Reply #134 on: December 01, 2021, 01:18:01 PM »
Again, I'm inclined to agree that Trump is a racist xenophobe, but that's my personal belief. Back in Jan 2020 when all sides and media were naming the virus "the Wuhan virus" or "The Wuhan cold" and the like, that wasn't hate against China, but when Trump did it it was?
Trump called it the "Chinese virus". We already had this conversation.
So this part isn't a fact, it is a personal opinion, but the fact it is adjacent to is not tinged by your opinion?
Opinion backed up by a rise in Asian hate crimes. Again, we already had this conversation.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/trumps-chinese-virus-tweet-helped-lead-rise-racist/story?id=76530148
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: The Sky Is Falling! Yet Another Variant
« Reply #135 on: December 01, 2021, 02:15:13 PM »


Trump called it the "Chinese virus". We already had this conversation.
I don't know if *we* discussed it, but the discussion is about what is fact and what is opinion. Fact: he was hardly the first person to call this virus by its place of origin, and it is also not the first virus to be called by its place of origin.

We likely agree as to his intentions, but we can also agree that that is our *opinion*.


Opinion backed up by a rise in Asian hate crimes. Again, we already had this conversation.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/trumps-chinese-virus-tweet-helped-lead-rise-racist/story?id=76530148
I said it's opinion because he calls it that in his post. Again, mine or your beliefs are irrelevant, I was only pointing out that his presentation of "facts" was heavily influenced by his opinion.
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: The Sky Is Falling! Yet Another Variant
« Reply #136 on: December 01, 2021, 02:39:25 PM »
My Facts Don't Care About Your Feelings, They Only Care About Mine
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: The Sky Is Falling! Yet Another Variant
« Reply #137 on: December 01, 2021, 02:47:59 PM »
I don't know if *we* discussed it, but the discussion is about what is fact and what is opinion. Fact: he was hardly the first person to call this virus by its place of origin, and it is also not the first virus to be called by its place of origin.

We likely agree as to his intentions, but we can also agree that that is our *opinion*.
Fact: He called it the "Chinese virus". He also called it the Ch"i"n"a" virus. That was racist. I don't care about his intentions. Those are the facts.
I said it's opinion because he calls it that in his post. Again, mine or your beliefs are irrelevant, I was only pointing out that his presentation of "facts" was heavily influenced by his opinion.
When what he says is backed up by stats IHMO that makes it a fact. Stats showed an uptick in Asian hate crime after his racist comment.

Now your opinion is his facts are tinged by his opinion. That doesn't mean they aren't facts.

I hate Trump. He made a comment to explore injecting bleach into oneself to kill the virus. My hatred towards him does not change that fact.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

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Re: The Sky Is Falling! Yet Another Variant
« Reply #138 on: December 01, 2021, 02:49:15 PM »
My Facts Don't Care About Your Feelings, They Only Care About Mine
Facts don't care about anyones feelings. If they only care about yours then they are not facts.  ;)
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline S209

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Re: The Sky Is Falling! Yet Another Variant
« Reply #139 on: December 01, 2021, 02:52:00 PM »
Fact: He called it the "Chinese virus". He also called it the Ch"i"n"a" virus. That was racist. I don't care about his intentions. Those are the facts.When what he says is backed up by stats IHMO that makes it a fact. Stats showed an uptick in Asian hate crime after his racist comment.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/03/11/sars-cov-2-chinese-coronavirus-isnt-racist-wuhan-covid-19-column/5020771002/