Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade

[imayid2]

So when it comes to murdering the unborn you are ok with murdering some of them. Be right back as I need to change your painting again.

No, I didn’t say that. (It might be true to excruciating circumstances but it’s irrelevant to our current conversation)
I’d be ok if the government isn’t involved in every decision.

You constantly conflate my view on what is morally wrong, and the discussion of how much the government should be involved.

[CountValentine]

You constantly conflate my view on what is morally wrong, and the discussion of how much the government should be involved.

You are putting your moral view onto KH. Saying the government should be involved is your moral view.

You are in a pickle, and I understand that.
You believe any abortion is murder.
Your religion has situations where abortion is permissible.
That means your religion... (going to invoke @jj1000 on myself at this point and stop).

[imayid2]

You are putting your moral view onto KH. Saying the government should be involved is your moral view.

No.
There is a point where you don’t need any religion to tell you that it is murder.

[CountValentine]

No.
There is a point where you don’t need any religion to tell you that it is murder.

Is aborting a 6-week embryo murder?

[imayid2]

Is aborting a 6-week embryo murder?

Why is that relevant to this conversation in which we are discussing the other extreme and I’m stating something that you’ve been pretty clear you agree with?

I would be all for them ruling no abortions after xx weeks with overturning RvW.

[imayid2]

Is aborting a 6-week embryo murder?

But because you asked, from Judaism’s standpoint there are strong grounds to say it isn’t “murder” though that term is fluid. (It would nevertheless be prohibited in most cases.)
That has nothing to do with governments role in this. I don’t have a definitive opinion, nor do I feel an urge to formulate one, on exactly when before viability the line should be drawn and government should step in. I’m ok with a rationale based viewpoint of 6 weeks. And as it progresses I’m less and less ok with the other viewpoint.

[CountValentine]

Here is the whole problem. If someone says you should let the women decide (as KH did) you are labeled as pro-abortion. That is completely false.

If you follow your priest or LOR decision and they say the abortion is permissible does that make them pro-abortion?

[imayid2]

Here is the whole problem. If someone says you should let the women decide (as KH did) you are labeled as pro-abortion. That is completely false.

No. It’s not completely false. If you don’t think the government should be involved in something which has no logical grounds to not be considered murder, then  although not pro abortion per se, are pro standing by to murder. Feel free to create a new term to capture this nuance.

If you follow your priest or LOR decision and they say the abortion is permissible does that make them pro-abortion?

Blunt terms don’t capture all the nuances this intricate question requires. I agree. It would be like calling the justification of killing an unwitting toddler about to to kill somebody “pro murder”. Obviously it’s more complex than that.

[CountValentine]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/3-jewish-women-file-suit-against-kentucky-abortion-bans-on-religious-grounds/ar-AA12INyO?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=923ec72000f44478b347c3d20f6319af

[imayid2]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/3-jewish-women-file-suit-against-kentucky-abortion-bans-on-religious-grounds/ar-AA12INyO?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=923ec72000f44478b347c3d20f6319af

I would be wary of anything the NCJW is involved in. They are a total corruption of Jewish values.

[CountValentine]

I would be wary of anything the NCJW is involved in. They are a total corruption of Jewish values.

The point is they are claiming it violates their religion and this isn't the first case like this. I don't expect your Jewish values to be the same as their Jewish values.

[imayid2]

I don't expect your Jewish values to be the same as their Jewish values.

There is only one Judaism.

[CountValentine]

It seems they disagree of what that one is.

Is this correct?
“Judaism has never defined life beginning at conception,”

[imayid2]

Is this correct?
“Judaism has never defined life beginning at conception,”

Hmm. If life means the same as a born person than it’s true. But it would be true in the third trimester too.
If they mean abortion is allowed it’s false. For the most part it’s prohibited.
If they mean that in the earliest part of pregnancy exemptions are easier to obtain, it hinges on halachik debate, with some very eminent Rabbis equating all stages.

[CountValentine]

Hmm. If life means the same as a born person than it’s true. But it would be true in the third trimester too.
If they mean abortion is allowed it’s false. For the most part it’s prohibited.
If they mean that in the earliest part of pregnancy exemptions are easier to obtain, it hinges on halachik debate, with some very eminent Rabbis equating all stages.

Did you quote the right post?
This is a straightforward yes or no question.
Let me show you how this works
"Christianity has never defined life beginning at conception,”
That would be false.
Now you try.
“Judaism has never defined life beginning at conception,”
Would that be true or false?

[imayid2]

Did you quote the right post?
This is a straightforward yes or no question.
Let me show you how this works
"Christianity has never defined life beginning at conception,”
That would be false.
Now you try.
“Judaism has never defined life beginning at conception,”
Would that be true or false?

First define “life”.

[CountValentine]

[WAM]

First define “life”.

Define woman without using the word "woman."

[imayid2]

Define woman without using the word "woman."

An adult human female.

[WAM]

An adult human female.

Lol.
That was in regard to CV's response.
Eta: Iow, you can define life and answer his question all in one post.