Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem

[mochjas]

Great point.

There you have it AJK after 6 times of asking you have an answer.

i doubt anyone who wanted to use points and couldn't would spend 500 a night. There are other better options at that price

[cholent]

i doubt anyone who wanted to use points and couldn't would spend 500 a night. There are other better options at that price

While that's certainly true for me I'm not willing to say that as a blanket statement for everyone out there

[Denverite]

i doubt anyone who wanted to use points and couldn't would spend 500 a night. There are other better options at that price

I wouldn't pay that much for 2 rooms for 10 nights but since I already have the other points reservations I might bite the bullet and pay for a room for the remaining nights I need.  Especially since I figure I get 30-40% back as a rebate of points I'll earn from the hotel and paying with my HHonors cc.

[Hershelsdeals]

What happens if i book the Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem with the non refundable rate (revenue).

If i cancel, do i lose everything? Or do i get a voucher or something?

[Denverite]

What happens if i book the Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem with the non refundable rate (revenue).

If i cancel, do i lose everything? Or do i get a voucher or something?

Lose everything!!   Only do that if you are 100% sure you are coming and don't want to try to switch out for points later.

[Hershelsdeals]

Lose everything!!   Only do that if you are 100% sure you are coming and don't want to try to switch out for points later.

Sheeeesh

[mgarfin]

Someone in the hotel industry in Jerusalem told me something that may explain a bit.
He claimed that you need a 200+ room hotel to survive in Jerusalem. As then you are able to sell rooms to groups operators to. Groups cover bills. The rest is sold to make a profit. When a hotel is to small, you cant sell to groups, and still have rooms to offer at market rates. He said that's the reason why my beloved hotel Dan Pearl Jerusalem is closed, as it only had 87 rooms.

Im not sure what this adds but i"m trying to show the complexity to make a profit in this market. 

[Dan]

He claimed that you need a 200+ room hotel to survive in Jerusalem.

Which the Waldorf has.

[Emkay]

i doubt anyone who wanted to use points and couldn't would spend 500 a night. There are other better options at that price

Happens all the time. A travel agent tries to get a room on points that he will then markup and there is no availability so the client just ends up paying full price.

[AJK]

Also if 10% of ppl decide to pay $500 instead because there's no points availability, the calculus changes. Even if 5% do this, it will impact the hotels decision

Great point.

There you have it AJK after 6 times of asking you have an answer.

Nope.

If the hotel is booked to 80% at $500/night, and the hotel then opens up the floodgates on award nights, prompting bookings such that the occupancy rises to, say, 97%, that 17% boost is reimbursed at ADR, which in this case, I'm assuming is ~$500. Six of one, half dozen of the other. There is no advantage to receiving $ from guests as opposed to Hilton corporate. The hotel is only better off if the award bookings only boost occupancy to, say, 89%. However, in that case, the hotel could simply (i) increase award availability, and/or (ii) reduce revenue rates to sufficiently to cross over the magical ADR line.

What you're suggesting--that the hotel restrict awards because "someone" may fork over $500 for the night--gets them only that revenue from that number of "someones," while opening awards "for free" has the potential to bring in revenue for both revenue and awards.

Bottom line, the decision for those at the margins to fork over $500 does not move the needle.

[jj1000]

Nope.

If the hotel is booked to 80% at $500/night, and the hotel then opens up the floodgates on award nights, prompting bookings such that the occupancy rises to, say, 97%, that 17% boost is reimbursed at ADR, which in this case, I'm assuming is ~$500. Six of one, half dozen of the other. There is no advantage to receiving $ from guests as opposed to Hilton corporate. The hotel is only better off if the award bookings only boost occupancy to, say, 89%. However, in that case, the hotel could simply (i) increase award availability, and/or (ii) reduce revenue rates to sufficiently to cross over the magical ADR line.

What you're suggesting--that the hotel restrict awards because "someone" may fork over $500 for the night--gets them only that revenue from that number of "someones," while opening awards "for free" has the potential to bring in revenue for both revenue and awards.

Bottom line, the decision for those at the margins to fork over $500 does not move the needle.

You didn't reply to earlier points. Namely they may lose money on award nights.

And now you are making up percentages to fit your logic. All I am offering are possible explanations.

[shalumov]

Sorry if it is beginners question ... Do you earn point on award booking?

[Emkay]

Sorry if it is beginners question ... Do you earn point on award booking?

no.

[mochjas]

no.

well you do get some if you have status

[AJK]

You didn't reply to earlier points. Namely they may lose money on award nights.

And now you are making up percentages to fit your logic. All I am offering are possible explanations.

I used the percentages I did at random. Use whatever numbers you want, the logic is still sound, i.e. that opening up awards raise the possibility they will cross the magical ADR-line, notwithstanding the possibility they'll lose some revenue bookings.

With respect to the possibility they lose money on award nights: 1) there is no evidence as to what the non-ADR reimbursement rate is for a Waldorf, and whether such sum would not be sufficient to cover variable costs, 2) even if it's insufficient, as has been mentioned, award guests spend $ at the hotel (room service, restaurants, upgrades, etc), 3) more importantly, they clearly would not lose money on bookings passed the magical line; in fact they'd gain considerably, and 4) each award booking that gets closer to magical ADR-line has the potential to be reimbursed at ADR.  The carrot seems to present a large enough incentive to disincentivize the (seemingly ill-advised) practice of restricting award nights, and that becomes even truer the more the ratio of the current occupancy skews towards award bookings (at the magical crossover, the hotel transforms a larger group of variable rate reimbursements to ADR-reimbursements).

Thus, even if they *do* lose $ on non-ADR reimbursements (which is at least a debateable proposition), the money is lost would pale in comparison to the potential gained by having a bulk of rooms reimbursed at ADR.

[shalumov]

well you do get some if you have status

I have diamond and booked some rooms with certificate and some with points.

[mb1]

Maybe they have an issue of people reserving with points and cancelling last minute, particularly during weekends and holidays.

[Dan]

Maybe they have an issue of people reserving with points and cancelling last minute, particularly during weekends and holidays.

They can change the advanced cancel requirement.

[mb1]

They can change the advanced cancel requirement.

On a reward booking?
Would they be able to impose something like a 60 day cancellation policy?
Or no refunds?

[mochjas]

I have diamond and booked some rooms with certificate and some with points.

you should get a welcome bonus. It's not much but it's something