Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[imayid2]

This sounds eerily like anti-vaxxer rhetoric.

Um. If you so say. Dunno, I’m vaxed.

[aygart]

Um. If you so say. Dunno, I’m vaxed.

It just does. Isn't that the same thing the anti-vaxxers are always saying "educate yourself"

[avromie7]

What’s wrong with the one I gave?You don’t have to be an educated consumer if you don’t want to. Some of us do.

I'm looking for a practical example where 1 org says no problem and another says it is a problem.

I don't think following the guidelines from my LOR makes me an uneducated consumer.

[imayid2]

It just does. Isn't that the same thing the anti-vaxxers are always saying "educate yourself"

Only that here it’s subjects you can actually understand, if you’ve learned the appropriate halachos.

[avromie7]

A well known example was Dole Romaine and various frozen broccoli.

Is that recently?

[imayid2]

I'm looking for a practical example where 1 org says no problem and another says it is a problem.

Raisins. Frozen Strawberries. Blueberries. Corn on the cob. There are more.

[aygart]

Raisins. Frozen Strawberries. Blueberries. Corn on the cob. There are more.

Which of those organizations say which is a problem?

[imayid2]

Which of those organizations say which is a problem?

There are sharp differences among national organizations how to clean these. See for example COR on corn on the cob, and star k on blueberries. They are much more stringent then others. (Cor isn’t included in LOR guidelines? I understand he’s basically saying you can trust all major hashgachos.) I don’t think star k allows frozen Strawberries without hashgocha. I’m not looking through all hashgachos about raisins right now, but it was a major tumult at one point.

[aygart]

but it was a major tumult at one point.

Raaya listor?

[imayid2]

Raaya listor?

I don’t quite know what you mean.
I’ll just say, Raisins is what set me off, I saw a sign from a heimeshe hechsher that it’s problematic, but most national organizations say it’s ok. I was curious to understand why that is, is it a disagreement in Halacha? Metzious? So I stated making some phone calls. First thing I was told by someone in a national hechsher, is that even generally good hechsherim can be woefully inept in these inyanim. Some are simply more on top of their game than other. Or have interesting shitos that you or your LOR might not be comfortable with.
No need to pick on this example. I’m simply explaining why there are people who don’t trust every organizations about these things. They may have looked into it a bit. Their LOR might have. You don’t want to? Knock yourself out, but there is no need to be antagonistic about it..

[aygart]

I don’t quite know what you mean.
I’ll just say, Raisins is what set me off, I saw a sign from a heimeshe hechsher that it’s problematic, but most national organizations say it’s ok. I was curious to understand why that is, is it a disagreement in Halacha? Metzious? So I stated making some phone calls. First thing I was told by someone in a national hechsher, is that even generally good hechsherim can be woefully inept in these inyanim. Some are simply more on top of their game than other. Or have interesting shitos that you or your LOR might not be comfortable with.
No need to pick on this example. I’m simply explaining why there are people who don’t trust every organizations about these things. They may have looked into it a bit. Their LOR might have. You don’t want to? Knock yourself out, but there is no need to be antagonistic about it..

oh there are tons of things I wouldn't eat despite hechsherim on them. I have an aversion to tumults though based on my experiences.

[avromie7]

I don’t quite know what you mean.
I’ll just say, Raisins is what set me off, I saw a sign from a heimeshe hechsher that it’s problematic, but most national organizations say it’s ok. I was curious to understand why that is, is it a disagreement in Halacha? Metzious? So I stated making some phone calls. First thing I was told by someone in a national hechsher, is that even generally good hechsherim can be woefully inept in these inyanim. Some are simply more on top of their game than other. Or have interesting shitos that you or your LOR might not be comfortable with.
No need to pick on this example. I’m simply explaining why there are people who don’t trust every organizations about these things. They may have looked into it a bit. Their LOR might have. You don’t want to? Knock yourself out, but there is no need to be antagonistic about it..

That's why I follow the national hechsherim and not the heimishe hechsherim. Do you remember when a heimishe hechsher put out a letter saying grey goose vodka is treif without evidence?

[imayid2]

oh there are tons of things I wouldn't eat despite hechsherim on them. I have an aversion to tumults though based on my experiences.

This “tumult”, I believe was the focus of an Ako meeting a number of years ago. Basically a bunch of organizations presented their findings and analyzed them. Rabbi Dovid Cohen from CRC Chicago had a very nice article about it in “Safirim”. What he says there is that everyone agrees there are insects, but the national organizations were matir because it was nolad btalush (in their opinion, some strongly dispute that) and you’ll have the sfek sfaika of the Taz.
Which leaves me bewildered why I hear some organizations say there is nothing there at all. Whatever.

[aygart]

There are sharp differences among national organizations how to clean these. See for example COR on corn on the cob, and star k on blueberries. They are much more stringent then others. (Cor isn’t included in LOR guidelines? I understand he’s basically saying you can trust all major hashgachos.) I don’t think star k allows frozen Strawberries without hashgocha. I’m not looking through all hashgachos about raisins right now, but it was a major tumult at one point.

Not including COR makes a lot of sense since there are items where the metzius is different in Canada.

[Alexsei]

Not including COR makes a lot of sense since there are items where the metzius is different in Canada.

Location could make a difference however I believe that in the case of locally grown vegetables such as corn it makes a bigger difference compared to frozen mass produced fruits that are likely grown in the same place and shipped all over the continent

[imayid2]

Not including COR makes a lot of sense since there are items where the metzius is different in Canada.

And items in Chicago are the same as the east coast?

[aygart]

And items in Chicago are the same as the east coast?

Much more likely to be exactly the same

[thaber]

This was very true of raisins, the better brands had much less issues, because their storage and quality control was better.
Corporations are people too, and they applies to hashgocha as well. Please be careful when accusing respected talmidei chachamim of making statements without being aware of metzius and /or halacha.

[imayid2]

This was very true of raisins, the better brands had much less issues, because their storage and quality control was better.
Corporations are people too, and they applies to hashgocha as well. Please be careful when accusing respected talmidei chachamim of making statements without being aware of metzius and /or halacha.

Somebody made an accusation? If anything I said is interpreted as such it was with carefulness.

[shwarmabob]

I have an aversion to tumults though based on my experiences.

must be an age related issue