Author Topic: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?  (Read 11173 times)

Offline Drago

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 8183
  • Total likes: 27
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 18
    • View Profile
Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« on: May 18, 2014, 04:40:11 AM »
I'm interested in hearing people's informed opinions about why it's so high, and what can be done to lower it.

Let me preface by saying that the average cost of a public school student is also around 13k-15k, so the answer may simply be that Jewish day school tuition isn't so high on a relative basis.

Below are some of the questions I'm interested in hearing discussed:

1) Is there lots of cross-subsidization going on?
2) Is tuition much higher in the tri-state area, and if so, why?
3) Is it possible some people are being paid way above their true market value? (I knew of a 350k salary for the principal of a school a few years ago, which seemed to be way out of line.)
4) Are MO schools generally more expensive, and if so, why?
5) Are chassidish schools generally cheaper, and if so, why?
6) Would having more communal oversight over school finances be a good thing, or just cause problems?
7) Should schools of different pursuasions band together to cut costs on the fixed overheads?
8 ) Are people having fewer children as a result of day school tuitions?
9) How does a beis medrash program justify charging high tuitions for the right to sit and learn all day?
10) Do people find the tuition discount programs to be too intrusive into ppl's personal financial lives, or not intrusive enough?
11) What are the tricks ppl typically do on their discount applications in order to hide their income?

What else am I missing?

Chime in civilly!

Online PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 10241
  • Total likes: 143
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8
    • View Profile
Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2014, 06:14:39 AM »
Didn't read all - but $15k times 20 students is $300,000/yr per class. Not that much when you have pay teachers salaries and other expenses.
Purpose > Pleasure

Offline Drago

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 8183
  • Total likes: 27
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 18
    • View Profile
Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2014, 06:36:59 AM »
Didn't read all - but $15k times 20 students is $300,000/yr per class. Not that much when you have pay teachers salaries and other expenses.
On a very simplified level, a single teacher could theorectically work a full day (similar to other professions), teach the class, receive a salary of $90,000 (w/ 2 months summer vacation), and still have $210,000 remaining to play with.

Online PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 10241
  • Total likes: 143
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8
    • View Profile
Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2014, 06:52:05 AM »
Shokiach. In practice they're paying more than 1 teacher.
Purpose > Pleasure

Offline Side incomer

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 3509
  • Total likes: 1
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2014, 07:17:44 AM »
Shokiach. In practice they're paying more than 1 teacher.
No kid is in school for more 8 learning hours (even the oldest children). In Chassish Schools the Rebbis get paid $20-25 an hour tops, which is not good, because then you don't always get the best quality...
But I think $35-40 is extremely nicely paid.

$40 x 8 x 5 x 50 = $80,000

That means that between all teachers combined, a class room has no reason to cost more than 80K a year.
Even if you double that (!!) you are still at 160K a year. How in the world are you getting to $300K?

And don't forget that all schools still have government programs etc...
Side income is the most solid income... בדוק ומנוסה

Offline Drago

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 8183
  • Total likes: 27
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 18
    • View Profile
Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2014, 07:52:04 AM »
Shokiach. In practice they're paying more than 1 teacher.
Obviously.
I was pointing out that a teacher can teach 8 hours in a day. Whether that's 8 one hour classes to different grades, or 8 hours of classes to the same grade, doesn't change the math on the school wide level.

Offline Sport

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2256
  • Total likes: 80
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2014, 07:59:58 AM »
No kid is in school for more 8 learning hours (even the oldest children). In Chassish Schools the Rebbis get paid $20-25 an hour tops, which is not good, because then you don't always get the best quality...
But I think $35-40 is extremely nicely paid.

$40 x 8 x 5 x 50 = $80,000

That means that between all teachers combined, a class room has no reason to cost more than 80K a year.
Even if you double that (!!) you are still at 160K a year. How in the world are you getting to $300K?

And don't forget that all schools still have government programs etc...
I would say it's even less than 80k to teachers per classroom. They have off for 8-10 weeks between. Summer and chagim.
Either way In most yeshivahs who is paying 15k. My completely uneducated guess is that most parents are probably paying under 10k. You also have a significant amount probably goes to subsidize other students' tuition.

Offline Achas Veachas

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4223
  • Total likes: 29
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2014, 08:29:06 AM »
I would say it's even less than 80k to teachers per classroom. They have off for 8-10 weeks between. Summer and chagim.
Either way In most yeshivahs who is paying 15k. My completely uneducated guess is that most parents are probably paying under 10k. You also have a significant amount probably goes to subsidize other students' tuition.
+1
Theoretically if everyone paid full tuition schools would be able to afford to lower the tuition for everyone.
Curiosity made the cat smarter.

Offline Sport

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2256
  • Total likes: 80
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2014, 08:41:45 AM »
FYI I just read that in NYC it costs the city 20k a student per year. But it's not comparable to yeshivah tuition; between pensions, other benifit a and all the extra curricular activities their cost should be much greater.

Offline peacenlove613

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 327
  • Total likes: 1
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: monsey
Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2014, 09:01:34 AM »
As the administrator of a school I can say that the main reason tuition is so high is because the majority of parents don't pay full tuition and even those parents who get breaks don't pay what they promise. So we are left with very large deficit gaps. We need to inflate the prices so those who can afford full will offset those who don't pay. Also if we ask a parent who doesn't have much to give for 15k a year we might get 6-7 but if we only ask for 10 we only get 4-5.

Offline sky121

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 11424
  • Total likes: 134
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2014, 09:06:50 AM »
Out of a class of 25 just about 3 paid full tuition when I was in school.
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline peacenlove613

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 327
  • Total likes: 1
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: monsey
Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2014, 09:10:11 AM »
And the rest probably still owe at half of what they promised.

Offline Sport

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2256
  • Total likes: 80
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2014, 09:13:11 AM »

As the administrator of a school I can say that the main reason tuition is so high is because the majority of parents don't pay full tuition and even those parents who get breaks don't pay what they promise. So we are left with very large deficit gaps. We need to inflate the prices so those who can afford full will offset those who don't pay. Also if we ask a parent who doesn't have much to give for 15k a year we might get 6-7 but if we only ask for 10 we only get 4-5.
What type of school are you administrator for ; MO, chasidush cheder, Yeshivish ...?

Offline Achas Veachas

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4223
  • Total likes: 29
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2014, 09:40:23 AM »
What type of school are you administrator for ; MO, chasidush cheder, Yeshivish ...?
I believe that's more or less the situation everywhere.
Curiosity made the cat smarter.

Online PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 10241
  • Total likes: 143
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8
    • View Profile
Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2014, 10:00:56 AM »
cost should be much greater.
If the 20k excludes real estate value that's probably wrong.
Purpose > Pleasure