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הוי זהיר בגחלתם שלא תכוה, שנשיכתן נשיכת שועל ועקיצתן עקיצת עקרב, ולחישתן לחישת שרף, וכל דבריהם כגחלי אש

« Last edited by Baruch on March 30, 2016, 01:00:08 PM »

Author Topic: The Tamar Epstein Saga  (Read 276525 times)

Offline SayWhat

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #480 on: November 30, 2015, 08:34:43 PM »
Honestly- kind of upset that so many people  care more about hock than kavod for rabbis. Rabbis make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. You are not allowed to blast a rabbi for making a mistake. There are ways of doing things in Judaism. Just like a married women can get married without getting a get first also you can't Bakst rabbis. No matter how grave of a mistake was made. Many great people have written about the horrible sin of talking bad about rabbis (and that is a fact- since we are so into facts on this thread). In all the letters written against this "heter" no one (to the best if my knowledge) called out any rabbi by name because they understand you can call out a rabbi and say bad about him. But for some reason people here think otherwise and that they are doing G-ds work by calling rabbis out. And again I repeat this whole story is horrible. Something obviously went wrong but that doesn't change the fact that there are great big rabbis- yes rabbis- that say this is not the way to go about it by us simpletons.
This was a long term process of systematic Rabinic abuse - This wasn't a "mistake"

I would and could give you the details but I don't think you'd be able to follow

Offline cs50

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #481 on: November 30, 2015, 08:35:02 PM »

THey mention names for you in a very unflattery way
http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2015/11/tamar-epstein-heter-new-letter-from.html
I said to the best of my knowledge. But again we don't have permission to do it. They do. And if they do it the correct way - and lsheim shamayim. Period.

Offline cs50

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #482 on: November 30, 2015, 08:35:43 PM »



I would and could give you the details but I don't think you'd be able to follow

You'd be surprised

Offline yochiek93

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #483 on: November 30, 2015, 08:36:33 PM »
This was a long term process of systematic Rabinic abuse - This wasn't a "mistake"

I would and could give you the details but I don't think you'd be able to follow
Please do
But remember its one side there is still another side to this story

Offline SayWhat

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #484 on: November 30, 2015, 08:38:58 PM »
Please do
But remember its one side there is still another side to this story
Based on the comments here it doesn't seem like I'm dealing with intelligent life

Offline yochiek93

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #485 on: November 30, 2015, 08:40:28 PM »
Based on the comments here it doesn't seem like I'm dealing with intelligent life
To the contrary! just believing one side of a story is not to bright.

Offline cs50

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #486 on: November 30, 2015, 08:41:33 PM »

To the contrary! just believing one side of a story is not to bright.
But don't forget that one side IS THE correct one.

Offline yochiek93

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #487 on: November 30, 2015, 08:42:37 PM »
But don't forget that one side IS THE correct one.
Actually in a fight there are 3 stories each side (is 2) and the correct one (3)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #488 on: November 30, 2015, 08:45:41 PM »
There has not been any defense of the heter from anyone yet. Only shifting of responsibility. There are no two sides here.

Offline yochiek93

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #489 on: November 30, 2015, 08:48:18 PM »
There has not been any defense of the heter from anyone yet. Only shifting of responsibility. There are no two sides here.
The reason being, nobody knows details.
But to say bad about someone is very easy no need for proof

Offline SayWhat

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #490 on: November 30, 2015, 08:51:27 PM »
The reason being, nobody knows details.
But to say bad about someone is very easy no need for proof
Lots know the details and they have written letters - all against the Heter.
I guess your point being is that the people that support the heter don't know the details in order to write letters supporting it

Offline yochiek93

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #491 on: November 30, 2015, 08:58:06 PM »
Lots know the details and they have written letters - all against the Heter.
I guess your point being is that the people that support the heter don't know the details in order to write letters supporting it
I meant here
 BTW from my experience by all these rabbonim in Israel they themselves don't look into it personally they trust their חצר but nebach the gabboim are not trustworthy
As someone who was a Gabbi by רשז"א once told me alot of the gabboim are like גיחזי

Offline SayWhat

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #492 on: November 30, 2015, 09:04:25 PM »
I meant here
 BTW from my experience by all these rabbonim in Israel they themselves don't look into it personally they trust their חצר but nebach the gabboim are not trustworthy
As someone who was a Gabbi by רשז"א once told me alot of the gabboim are like גיחזי
Why are you calling Rabbonim in Israel names? Why are you saying bad things about people much greater than you? You will be condemned to eternal hell for that

 

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #493 on: November 30, 2015, 09:14:27 PM »
Why are you calling Rabbonim in Israel names? Why are you saying bad things about people much greater than you? You will be condemned to eternal hell for that
Because all of a sudden criticizing rabbonim is OK.

Offline yochiek93

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #494 on: November 30, 2015, 09:15:00 PM »
Why are you calling Rabbonim in Israel names? Why are you saying bad things about people much greater than you? You will be condemned to eternal hell for that
How do you take out from what I said that I called rabbonim names ח"ו.
Yes the gabboim are just like you just people that want to make a seen.

Offline yochiek93

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #495 on: November 30, 2015, 09:16:54 PM »
Because all of a sudden criticizing rabbonim is OK.
How am I criticizing I'm stating facts which you can see and check for yourself (an example would be עץ and ג )

Offline Ergel

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #496 on: November 30, 2015, 09:24:54 PM »
There has not been any defense of the heter from anyone yet. Only shifting of responsibility. There are no two sides here.
+1
That doesn't mean that someone maliciously corrupted and violated halacha but it's pretty clear the gedolei haposkim have rejected any possibility of her legitimately remarrying
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Online yuneeq

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #497 on: November 30, 2015, 09:57:15 PM »
TL;DR
"I don't know what we're talking about but if you disagree with my quick assumption you're going to hell!! >:( >:(
Visibly Jewish

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #498 on: November 30, 2015, 10:25:47 PM »
I meant here
 BTW from my experience by all these rabbonim in Israel they themselves don't look into it personally they trust their חצר but nebach the gabboim are not trustworthy
As someone who was a Gabbi by רשז"א once told me alot of the gabboim are like גיחזי


FYI, this was ready to go out many weeks ago but the gaavad held it up until the facts were double triple verified.

There is no "chotzer" involved here. This thread is full of direct correspondences between the rabbonim.

Offline yochiek93

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #499 on: November 30, 2015, 10:30:00 PM »



There is no "chotzer" involved here. This thread is full of direct correspondences between the rabbonim.

And you are 100% sure about that? I want proof because I've seen this time and time again that a rov said.... When it was all based on what his gabboim told him