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הוי זהיר בגחלתם שלא תכוה, שנשיכתן נשיכת שועל ועקיצתן עקיצת עקרב, ולחישתן לחישת שרף, וכל דבריהם כגחלי אש

« Last edited by Baruch on March 30, 2016, 01:00:08 PM »

Author Topic: The Tamar Epstein Saga  (Read 271500 times)

Offline Boruch999

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #600 on: December 03, 2015, 10:23:52 AM »
Is he calling himself daas torah or is it just a blog about matters involving daas torah?
I understood the latter.
+1

Offline chaimmayer

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #601 on: December 03, 2015, 10:54:38 AM »
He wrote a book by that name so I think that is his excuse for using that title for the blog but I am sure he thinks תרתי משמע

Offline SayWhat

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #602 on: December 03, 2015, 11:03:49 AM »
Classic - attack the messenger when you don't like the message

Offline Aaaron

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #603 on: December 03, 2015, 11:09:32 AM »
Classic - attack the messenger when you don't like the message

Pot, meet kettle.  Although you're probably too blinded by your biases to notice that you've done the same thing.


Or we ok on that point - R Shalom either lied or was misinformed and did not do the basic research on this case before being Matir an Eishes Ish?

It's possible that R Shalom tricked R Notta twice. Once by falsely presenting the case as one where the husband had a mental sickness which is only based on a report written by a psychologist who never met the husband and used R Notta's name as the Matir. The second time might have been when the couple went to R Notta to be masder (with R Notta not knowing that this was the woman in R Shalom's theoretical case) and R Notta asked the couple who is your Rabbi and she said R Shalom and R Shalom than vouched to R Notta that she is in fact ok to be married.

And there are more of you attacking TE and R' Shalom.

Offline SayWhat

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #604 on: December 03, 2015, 11:26:47 AM »
Pot, meet kettle.  Although you're probably too blinded by your biases to notice that you've done the same thing.

And there are more of you attacking TE and R' Shalom.
How did I attack the messenger? I made a point about the message.

Offline AJK

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #605 on: December 03, 2015, 01:00:17 PM »
Pot, meet kettle.  Although you're probably too blinded by your biases to notice that you've done the same thing.

Zing.

How did I attack the messenger? I made a point about the message.

You see, if that was actually what you did (instead of what you think you did), this thread would likely have an entirely different tone.

Debate halacha to your heart's content. But:

these rabbis have a *lifetime* behind them of learning, sacrificing, and helping the klal. The least some of you faceless rumor mongers can do is afford them a bit of respect and benefit of the doubt considering their history.

The truth will come out one way or the other. It's not your jobs to spit venom on the backs of people that are undoubtedly greater than you.
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline Baruch

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #606 on: December 03, 2015, 01:11:51 PM »

Man, they must have had a black Friday sale somewhere on armchair medical degrees.

The amount of conjecture and mere speculation on this thread is mind boggling. It's almost as if some of you wouldn't recognize the concept of "don't jump to conclusions" or "giving the benefit of the doubt" if it hit you in the heads.

Either you have all the facts, or you don't. You likely don't.

And sure, no one is saying Rabbis are infallible, but in some cases, these rabbis have a *lifetime* behind them of learning, sacrificing, and helping the klal. The least some of you faceless rumor mongers can do is afford them a bit of respect and benefit of the doubt considering their history.

The truth will come out one way or the other. It's not your jobs to spit venom on the backs of people that are undoubtedly greater than you.

... Especially if you're not sure of the facts.
Love this post!
@AJK have you ever considered becoming a columnist for a newspaper? You sure know how to use the pen.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #607 on: December 03, 2015, 02:10:47 PM »
Based on some of the responses and pm's that I have received, there seems to be a sentiment that this topic is somewhat taboo and should not be discussed.

Obviously one should not be disrespectful in anyway when discussing halachic opinions and talmiday chachomim. This goes without saying.
But this is a groundbreaking halachic story, that is of much interest to laymen, talmidim, rabbonim and Klall yisroel.
It can and should be debated and discussed as are all other popular halachic discussions.
Yes, sometimes there is ritcha deoraysa and opinions are discussed in a more forceful way, but this is the derech of Torah and halacha. 

Kol pitputey deoraysa tavin. Umitoch shelo lishmo bo lismo.

Offline AJK

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #608 on: December 03, 2015, 02:37:45 PM »
Love this post!
@AJK have you ever considered becoming a columnist for a newspaper? You sure know how to use the pen.

I appreciate the compliment.

This whole thread just gets the blood boiling which serves as the catalyst for the creative juices apparently.

I have to say, I have received multiple PMs regarding my stance here from people who did not want to publicly acknowledge their support, so thanks to you all as well.
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #609 on: December 03, 2015, 11:11:27 PM »
I find eidensohn on his blog to be going further and further beyond the pale.  Rav aharon Feldman who was one of the first to issue a letter was very careful to only write about the heter not the ones who issued it.
This guy though who calls his blog daas torah is just crazy.  His brother thinks there is no one alive who knows halacha as well as he does and all the gedolim are all going to gehenom because they don't know halacha.  He is a drop better but still how do you dare Refer to this as "rabbinic corruption and incompetence". He is all excited looking for the smoking gun and he is somehow going to be the force to end this marriage.
Makes me sick!
Thanks for listening to my rant that was therapeutic.
Apparently daatorah is not the only one dissmising the matirim as non rabbis..

http://yudelstake.blogspot.com/2015/12/blog-post.html?m=1

Things are going downhill fast..

Offline aygart

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #610 on: December 03, 2015, 11:12:48 PM »
Apparently daatorah is not the only one dissmising the matirim as non rabbis..

http://yudelstake.blogspot.com/2015/12/blog-post.html?m=1

Things are going downhill fast..
shkoyich.......His whole blog is about dismissing matirim as non rabbis
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 11:46:23 PM by aygart »
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #611 on: December 03, 2015, 11:16:08 PM »
shkoyich.......
And there were protests outside the wedding tonight...

Offline AJK

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #612 on: December 03, 2015, 11:27:10 PM »
Apparently daatorah is not the only one dissmising the matirim as non rabbis..

http://yudelstake.blogspot.com/2015/12/blog-post.html?m=1

Things are going downhill fast..

Uhm... forgive me, but I'm confused. This Kol Korah is denouncing "Open Orthodoxy."

1) Why does the photo above the Kol Korah show both R' Kamenetsky's as part of Yeshivat Chovevei Torah?

ETA: Apparently it's some terrible photoshop job. (I overlooked the bios included).

2) What does this have to do with the Epstein "saga?"
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 11:31:24 PM by AJK »
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #613 on: December 04, 2015, 06:59:48 AM »
Uhm... forgive me, but I'm confused. This Kol Korah is denouncing "Open Orthodoxy."

1) Why does the photo above the Kol Korah show both R' Kamenetsky's as part of Yeshivat Chovevei Torah?

ETA: Apparently it's some terrible photoshop job. (I overlooked the bios included).

2) What does this have to do with the Epstein "saga?"
Its a cynical childish joke trying to imply that rabbis Kamenetzke are part of open orthodoxy, - where feminisem wins over halacha.

I linked it to show how far people are going in bashing the matirim.

Offline Boruch999

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #614 on: December 04, 2015, 07:17:51 AM »
Its a cynical childish joke trying to imply that rabbis Kamenetzke are part of open orthodoxy, - where feminisem wins over halacha.

I linked it to show how far people are going in bashing the matirim.
Utterly despicable.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #615 on: December 04, 2015, 08:33:43 AM »

Offline dealfinder85

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #616 on: December 04, 2015, 08:36:13 AM »
Unprecedented.
some day, these people will pay

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #617 on: December 04, 2015, 11:15:19 AM »



This is saying that the process was invalid.

Offline Ergel

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #618 on: December 04, 2015, 12:58:29 PM »
This is saying that the process was invalid.
That to me is the craziest part. Even if everything is 100% correct, to do it so secretively is the most bizarre part.
Excuse my ignorance, but who is this Rav?
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #619 on: December 04, 2015, 01:08:09 PM »
That to me is the craziest part. Even if everything is 100% correct, to do it so secretively is the most bizarre part.
Excuse my ignorance, but who is this Rav?
Very big dayan in benay brak. I believe on R Nisim karelitz's Beis din.