Topic Wiki

הוי זהיר בגחלתם שלא תכוה, שנשיכתן נשיכת שועל ועקיצתן עקיצת עקרב, ולחישתן לחישת שרף, וכל דבריהם כגחלי אש

« Last edited by Baruch on March 30, 2016, 01:00:08 PM »

Author Topic: The Tamar Epstein Saga  (Read 271663 times)

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17299
  • Total likes: 14120
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #620 on: December 04, 2015, 02:52:17 PM »
Utterly despicable.
It did'nt take much brains to see it would go that way. Just look at this thread.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7355
  • Total likes: 301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #621 on: December 05, 2015, 09:21:07 PM »

Offline yuneeq

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 8611
  • Total likes: 3997
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #622 on: December 06, 2015, 12:00:36 AM »
Basically discussing all the popcorn threads ;D
Visibly Jewish

Offline danrocks613

  • Dansdeals Silver Elite
  • **
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 74
  • Total likes: 10
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #623 on: December 06, 2015, 12:04:44 AM »
He tried getting gaavad to be matir prenups about 10 times and gaavad would not hear of it.

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7355
  • Total likes: 301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #624 on: December 06, 2015, 12:21:29 AM »
He tried getting gaavad to be matir prenups about 10 times and gaavad would not hear of it.
Who, David Lichtenstein?

Offline Baruch

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 2599
  • Total likes: 330
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #625 on: December 06, 2015, 01:34:08 AM »
He tried getting gaavad to be matir prenups about 10 times and gaavad would not hear of it.
gaavad, or raavad r shternbuch?

Offline danrocks613

  • Dansdeals Silver Elite
  • **
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 74
  • Total likes: 10
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #626 on: December 06, 2015, 05:16:12 AM »

Offline danrocks613

  • Dansdeals Silver Elite
  • **
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 74
  • Total likes: 10
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #627 on: December 06, 2015, 05:17:00 AM »

gaavad, or raavad r shternbuch?
R shternbuch

Offline SayWhat

  • Dansdeals Silver Elite
  • **
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 56
  • Total likes: 72
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: USA
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #628 on: December 06, 2015, 10:25:13 AM »
If you listened to Lichtenstein's show last night he was almost making a joke out of how the current case was not similar to the annulment given by R Moshe which this case is supposed to be compared to. In the case where R Moshe gave the heter the husband was in a mental institution, had tried to kill himself and ran around without clothes on wheres this husband has had a very prestigious job as an attorney in Congress (Lichtenstein didn't get into the other details such as Baltimore Bais Din etc...)

The question is what should be done? This has dragged on for weeks without anyone actually defending or even explaining the Heter. Does anyone else think that we should be hearing from the leaders of American Jewry as to what is going on. Are we entitled to receive answers when something which looks highly suspicious that has major implications for all of Klal Yisroel happens? It SEEMS (please don't jump on me I'm just saying that this what it seems like) like our leaders would rather not address this and just wait for it to blow over. If this heter was done by an RCA Rabbi would the response be the same? What role does politics play in who is willing to say what about this case? Is this about Halacha or politics? What should our reaction be to what seems to be this inaction by our leaders? Does the Torah only belong to the Rabonim and we are to stay silent in what looks like the distortion of Halacha? Or as Mr. Lichtenstein made it sound like last night - we are becoming a joke.


 

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17299
  • Total likes: 14120
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #629 on: December 06, 2015, 10:48:26 AM »
Who is this Lichtenstein guy? Is he a rov somewhere? What are his halachic qualifications? Does he have some involvement in this story?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline SayWhat

  • Dansdeals Silver Elite
  • **
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 56
  • Total likes: 72
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: USA
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #630 on: December 06, 2015, 10:50:49 AM »
Who is this Lichtenstein guy? Is he a rov somewhere? What are his halachic qualifications? Does he have some involvement in this story?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lichtenstein

He has a weekly radio show where he has Rabonim discussing contemporary topics

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7355
  • Total likes: 301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #631 on: December 06, 2015, 11:26:58 AM »
Who is this Lichtenstein guy? Is he a rov somewhere? What are his halachic qualifications? Does he have some involvement in this story?
A radio host.

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7355
  • Total likes: 301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #632 on: December 07, 2015, 06:30:40 AM »

Offline Baruch

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 2599
  • Total likes: 330
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #633 on: December 07, 2015, 08:53:56 AM »
Who is this Lichtenstein guy? Is he a rov somewhere? What are his halachic qualifications? Does he have some involvement in this story?
He's a billionaire

Offline Ergel

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 12818
  • Total likes: 905
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #634 on: December 07, 2015, 09:48:06 AM »
Very impressed with that letter.
Why didn't she do to the BD to get her get?
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17299
  • Total likes: 14120
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #635 on: December 07, 2015, 09:52:24 AM »
He's a billionaire

It was a rhetorical question.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline SayWhat

  • Dansdeals Silver Elite
  • **
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 56
  • Total likes: 72
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: USA
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #636 on: December 07, 2015, 09:54:31 AM »
Very impressed with that letter.
Why didn't she do to the BD to get her get?
That's a good question that only she can answer.
The theory is she didn't want the Bais Din to rule on monetary and custody issues because she would get a better deal from the secular courts so she didn't return to the Bais Din

Offline Ergel

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 12818
  • Total likes: 905
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #637 on: December 07, 2015, 09:55:58 AM »
But the BD clearly said it wouldn't rule on that which the courts already ruled on
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17299
  • Total likes: 14120
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #638 on: December 07, 2015, 10:24:40 AM »
Very impressed with that letter.
Why didn't she do to the BD to get her get?
+1 That is from the biggest questions here on both sides.
That's a good question that only she can answer.
The theory is she didn't want the Bais Din to rule on monetary and custody issues because she would get a better deal from the secular courts so she didn't return to the Bais Din
But the BD clearly said it wouldn't rule on that which the courts already ruled on
Also, the letter clearly states that they did not hear from him either. If the monetary etc. issues are "taken care of" by the courts then why isn't HE trying to get this resolved? Doesn't he want to get remarried? Of course that will be difficult at this point considering that the possibility of his having serious issues is out there.

Meanwhile, to paraphrase the letter, we have not yet seen that anyone issued a final heter for her. Of course there are those who are following this much more deeply than I as well as those who feel it will advance whatever interests they have who may know of some as yet unpublicized ruling on this matter.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Moshe123

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 5935
  • Total likes: 911
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Spring Valley
  • Programs: Lost
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #639 on: December 07, 2015, 01:12:50 PM »