Peace In The Middle East Master Thread

[AsherO]

My family lived in Chevron since 1845. When Maharat Hamachpeila was under Arab control, Jews could go no further than the 7th step outside. If Palestine were granted a state that included Chevron, we wouldn't even be allowed to go near the steps.

Is that an Open-Orthodox shrine?

[Essen est zich]

I wonder who used this in his speech the other day?

"You must remember what Amalek has done to you"

How should one take that?

Amalek, the Nation of: Biblical Canaanite nation descending from Esau's grandson, Amalek. Legendary foe of the Jewish people; the first nation to attack the Jewish people after the exodus from Egypt.
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/267677/jewish/Wipe-Out-Amalek-Today.htm

Learn more here:
https://www.chabad.org/search/keyword_cdo/kid/2825/jewish/Amalek-the-Nation-of.htm

[AsherO]

I wonder who used this in his speech the other day?

"You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. 'Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys'"

How should one take that?

Why are we debating political rhetoric when October 7th massacre and countless rockets aimed at civilians compare to 800k people being evacuated from northern Gaza to spare their lives?

[AsherO]

The point is Bibi never took the slogan to mean kill all Jews. If he did then he did the same thing with his slogan. It is that simple. What is odd is that no one knew of Bibi's slogan.

What is odd is that “everyone with half a brain” knows what the original slogan means and yet it’s chanted across the globe, while “Bibi’s slogan” which nobody besides you gives any significance to is being discussed here as equal.

[AsherO]

Why are we debating political rhetoric when October 7th massacre and countless rockets aimed at civilians compare to 800k people being evacuated from northern Gaza to spare their lives?

Even if you’ll say we’re talking politics and statements/charters here, then compare apples to apples. While Israel doesn’t have a formal constitution, they don’t have any formal/identity documents calling for genocide or racism either.

[Yehuda57]

Is that an Open-Orthodox shrine?

Fixed, lol

[mevinyavin]

[dasmo801]

I wonder who used this in his speech the other day?

"You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. 'Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys'"

How should one take that?

What is the source of this quote?
I listened to Netanyahu's speeches and as far as I recall he said the first sentence "You must remember what Amalek has done to you" but the rest of that line was not part of his speech.

[CountValentine]

The point is that words matter, and everyone puts different meanings on words.

[dasmo801]

The point is that words matter, and everyone puts different meanings on words.

Sorry for missing your point. I think its pretty important to point out that Netanyau in fact did NOT call for putting all men, women children and infants to death. Dont you agree?

[CountValentine]

Sorry for missing your point. I think its pretty important to point out that Netanyau in fact did NOT call for putting all men, women children and infants to death. Dont you agree?

Yes I agree and will try and find the link. If you heard the whole speech and say the second part was not in it, I believe you.

[AYHG]

The point is that words matter, and everyone puts different meanings on words.

No! The point is that all words can be taken out of their obvious context and forced into a contrived context to make them fit ones worldview. Not all meanings are equally true just because it can be forced. Common sense is still a thing.

How about "gas them" chanted in Sydney and Englewood, NJ, among other places. What's "gas" and who's "them"
When I heard it, I took it to mean "give the jews oxygen", or "give the Palestinians gasoline"

or "we're looking for jews, we want blood." I took it to mean that,  in light of the data showing that a disproportionately higher percentage of jews donate blood vs the general population, "we want to run a much needed blood drive in a Jewish neighborhood."

Alternatively, they actually intend the obvious meaning. As do those chanting the innocuous "free Palestine"

https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1720113147384656295

https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1720072344885186814

[CountValentine]

No!

You are looking at it through your own eyes. You fail to acknowledge others can see it totally differently.

A perfect example was the post/tweet about a famous singer that had a hand glider in her post after 10/7. Many on DDF took that to mean she supports Hamas and killing of babies. It had 100% nothing to do with any of that. Some see what they want to see and others try and see all sides. Which one are you?   

[AYHG]

Lets go full stop and help me and the ignorant college kids understand. Let me stay first I have seen a ton of interviews with these kids and not one of them wants to kill Jews.

When/where did this phrase start/originate?

Can you site interviews where those screaming from the river to the see clarify that they don't actually want them to die?
I don't care if your subjective opinion of them after watching those interviews is that "not one of them wants to kill Jews." That wasn't the standard we're after.

What I do know is that I've seen insane amounts of tiktoks and posted messages from college boards fully justifying Hamas's actions on Oct. 7 and calling for Jewish blood.

You are looking at it through your own eyes. You fail to acknowledge others can see it totally differently.

A perfect example was the post/tweet about a famous singer that had a hand glider in her post after 10/7. Many on DDF took that to mean she supports Hamas and killing of babies. It had 100% nothing to do with any of that. Some see what they want to see and others try and see all sides. Which one are you?   

I'm from those who see the obvious and don't try to twist an entire worldview into someone else's words. I may be wrong, but I don't think Nazis in Germany in '38 where chanting "we intend to personally murder all jews who walk this earth."

I don't care about your perfect example. I don't know the specifics in that case, but even if it was unintentional, it was clearly the only outlier, and that is the point. Anyone with common sense understands that the handglider image has come to represent solidarity with Hamas when it comes along with a pro-Palestinian message. Gas doesn't always mean Zyklon B. But it always means that when sayin "gas the jews"

The meaning here is obvious. As is the meaning "mobilize the Intifada"
"Intifada" means exactly as it is intended to mean when used by the people they're mobilizing to support.

[CountValentine]

I don't care about your perfect example.

This is all your posts. You only want to see it one way.
Enjoy the rest of your day.

[Ver hut gazugt]

You are looking at it through your own eyes. You fail to acknowledge others can see it totally differently.

A perfect example was the post/tweet about a famous singer that had a hand glider in her post after 10/7. Many on DDF took that to mean she supports Hamas and killing of babies. It had 100% nothing to do with any of that. Some see what they want to see and others try and see all sides. Which one are you?

sometimes seeing two sides is obfuscating evil.

[AYHG]

This is all your posts. You only want to see it one way.
Enjoy the rest of your day.

Relax... I edited the post, which I inadvertently posted before I finished.

[AsherO]

Can you site interviews where those screaming from the river to the see clarify that they don't actually want them to die?
I don't care if your subjective opinion of them after watching those interviews is that "not one of them wants to kill Jews." That wasn't the standard we're after.

What I do know is that I've seen insane amounts of tiktoks and posted messages from college boards fully justifying Hamas's actions on Oct. 7 and calling for Jewish blood.

I'm from those who see the obvious and don't try to twist an entire worldview into someone else's words. I may be wrong, but I don't think Nazis in Germany in '38 where chanting "we intend to personally murder all jews who walk this earth.”

I’m not sure all Nazis complicit in murdering Jews really realized where things would go, and if asked in 1938 would admit they were ready to methodically mass-murder Jews.

Also keep in mind that when you have an entire group of people chanting a slogan, they aren’t all of the same mindset. There’s a continuum both when it comes to how they feel about the issue, and in how knowledgeable they are about the facts. And knowledge and feelings don’t necessarily correlate either.

[CountValentine]

sometimes seeing two sides is obfuscating evil.

If someone said to me at this time there are two sides to the terrorist attack, I would punch them in the face.
If they said to me, their understanding to river/sea/free is not about killing Jews, I would listen.

[AYHG]

I’m not sure all Nazis complicit in murdering Jews really realized where things would go, and if asked in 1938 would admit they were ready to methodically mass-murder Jews.

Also keep in mind that when you have an entire group of people chanting a slogan, they aren’t all of the same mindset. There’s a continuum both when it comes to how they feel about the issue, and in how knowledgeable they are about the facts. And knowledge and feelings don’t necessarily correlate either.

Hence,

I don't think anyone implied that all those individual protesters would personally murder all the jews in Israel, and there likely are some college students just parroting. But forgive me for believing that, as a whole, they would rejoice if the Israelis where all driven into the sea tomorrow and all the land became 'Palestine'.