Peace In The Middle East Master Thread

[AsherO]

If someone said to me at this time there are two sides to the terrorist attack, I would punch them in the face.
If they said to me, their understanding to river/sea/free is not about killing Jews, I would listen.

Really? The cheering/chanting started almost immediately on October 7th, how could it not have anything to do with killing Jews (in that context)? Or now they get a pass cuz it’s three weeks later and the IDF is in Gaza?

[CountValentine]

Really?

Yes.

[AYHG]

If someone said to me at this time there are two sides to the terrorist attack, I would punch them in the face.
If they said to me, their understanding to river/sea/free is not about killing Jews, I would listen.

It's the same people. The people two-siding it, and never mind those glorifying Oct 7 in the messages and videos we've all seen, are the ones crying "from the river to the sea"

I'm still waiting for some evidence of protesters using that slogan who disavow violence against Israeli civilians.

[CountValentine]

Random thought: Before 10/7 millions probably supported the Palestinas cause (free of being ruled and their own state). No one accused them of wanting to kill all Jews. These same people are now labeled as pro-Hamas and want to kill all Jews.

[AYHG]

Random thought: Before 10/7 millions probably supported the Palestinas cause (free of being ruled and their own state). No one accused them of wanting to kill all Jews. These same people are now labeled as pro-Hamas and want to kill all Jews.

Nope, that's just you jumbling together all supporters of "Palestine" with those who chant abhorrent slogans. And confusing "not minding if the jews there all die", with "we will personally murder them."

But let's just say, people heavily invested in the "Palestinian cause" were never viewed as lovers of jews, to put it mildly. That's precisely what conservatives have been insisting on for forever. That "Pro-Palestinian" is often a cover for antisemitism.

[AsherO]

Random thought: Before 10/7 millions probably supported the Palestinas cause (free of being ruled and their own state). No one accused them of wanting to kill all Jews. These same people are now labeled as pro-Hamas and want to kill all Jews.

And in 1920s many Jews were proud German patriots, what’s your point?

[CountValentine]

And in 1920s many Jews were proud German patriots, what’s your point?

Overnight these people went from not wanting Jews killed to wanting Jews killed.
Now you are going to use the Nazi analogy? There is an honest discussion.

[CountValentine]

That's precisely what conservatives have been insisting on for forever. That "Pro-Palestinian" is often a cover for antisemitism.

You didn't just use the R's to make your point, did you. The party that has dinner with white supremacist? All R's are not white supremacist but all white supremacist are R's.

[EliJelly]

Random thought: Before 10/7 millions probably supported the Palestinas cause (free of being ruled and their own state). No one accused them of wanting to kill all Jews. These same people are now labeled as pro-Hamas and want to kill all Jews.

After Hamas showed their true colors, those who still support them are showing *their* true colors.

[JMHO]

Random thought: Before 10/7 millions probably supported the Palestinas cause (free of being ruled and their own state). No one accused them of wanting to kill all Jews. These same people are now labeled as pro-Hamas and want to kill all Jews.

This reminds me of a pretzel from the weekend...

[CountValentine]

After Hamas showed their true colors, those who still support them are showing *their* true colors.

They never supported Hamas to begin with unless you are using a code word (Palestinians=Hamas).

[CountValentine]

This reminds me of a pretzel from the weekend...

...and this reminds me of someone between a rock and a hard place.

[AsherO]

Overnight these people went from not wanting Jews killed to wanting Jews killed.
Now you are going to use the Nazi analogy? There is an honest discussion.

I'm using an analogy of when facts change people's perspectives (or how we see their perspectives) change too.

Someone supports the Palestinian cause, ok. Where do they stop? Palestinians elect Hamas, they still support the cause. Hamas targets civillians, they still support the cause. Hamas massacres civillians brutally, they still support the cause. It's about time we call them out for what they're supporting, and wondering what their slogans mean when they keep chanting them.

[CountValentine]

Someone supports the Palestinian cause, ok. Where do they stop? Palestinians elect Hamas, they still support the cause. Hamas targets civillians, they still support the cause. Hamas massacres civillians brutally, they still support the cause. It's about time we call them out for what they're supporting, and wondering what their slogans mean when they keep chanting them.

If you want to call them out then stop beating around the bush. Your whole statement reads Palestinians=Hamas.
When been through this a hundred times. You (DDF) say no then post after post says yes. So, which is it? 

[AsherO]

If you want to call them out then stop beating around the bush. Your whole statement reads Palestinians=Hamas.
When been through this a hundred times. You (DDF) say no then post after post says yes. So, which is it? 

Stop looking for black and white andswers when the situation is fluid and there's a continuum. One can support the palestinian cause or symathize with them, without being an antisemite. But the people in these rallies are often one of two types:
1. They're either grossly misinformed about what they're supporting or what their slogans mean/imply.
2. Or, they are anti-semetic whether they realize it or not.

It's a very small majority who want peace for both sides and will acknowledge the suffering on both sides and stand in solidarity with both sides.

Just because Palestinians don't equal Hamas to me, doesn't mean the people marching don't either implicitly or explicitly support Hamas in the name of "Palestinian resistance".

[CountValentine]

Stop looking for black and white andswers when the situation is fluid and there's a continuum. One can support the palestinian cause or symathize with them, without being an antisemite. But the people in these rallies are often one of two types:
1. They're either grossly misinformed about what they're supporting or what their slogans mean/imply.
2. Or, they are anti-semetic whether they realize it or not.

It's a very small majority who want peace for both sides and will acknowledge the suffering on both sides and stand in solidarity with both sides.

Just because Palestinians don't equal Hamas to me, doesn't mean the people marching don't either implicitly or explicitly support Hamas in the name of "Palestinian resistance".

Wait, I should not look for black and white answers but you gave two options that were black and black.

If don't want to have someone believe you are saying Palestinians=Hamas then you might want to word this better.

Someone supports the Palestinian cause, ok. Where do they stop? Palestinians elect Hamas, they still support the cause. Hamas targets civillians, they still support the cause. Hamas massacres civillians brutally, they still support the cause. It's about time we call them out for what they're supporting, and wondering what their slogans mean when they keep chanting them.

[AsherO]

Wait, I should not look for black and white answers but you gave two options that were black and black.

I didn't, I specifically said there are exceptions and that those were broad categories.

If don't want to have someone believe you are saying Palestinians=Hamas then you might want to word this better.

If someone's support for the palestinian cause doesn't have limits in what could happen or what they chant, I start thinking they believe Palestinians=Hamas, that was my point.They also seem to believe that Hamas and any other form of "Palestinian resistance" is justified, no conditions or limits on that.

[AYHG]

If you want to call them out then stop beating around the bush. Your whole statement reads Palestinians=Hamas.
When been through this a hundred times. You (DDF) say no then post after post says yes. So, which is it?

Same kind of black and white thinking as:

You didn't just use the R's to make your point, did you. The party that has dinner with white supremacist? All R's are not white supremacist but all white supremacist are R's.

During the Syrian uprising, "Pro-Palestine" supporters made it abundantly clear what it is that truly bothers them. Barely anyone said boo as 4000-5000 Palestinians were slaughtered and many more displaced.

Similarly, nobody cared about the black September, when Jordan killed 3000-4000 Palestinians. (Incidentally, inventing casualty numbers isn't an innovation of the Gaza Health Ministry. Arafat claimed that Jordan killed 25,000. Using that math might be helpful to those who want to calculate more accurate casualty numbers in Gaza.)

Nobody cared in 2005 when Iraq chased out their Palestinians saying "the Al-Bayt Revenge Brigade – Rapid Response Units states that “there is no place for Palestinians in the Iraq of Ali, Hassan, and Hussain.” Leaflets warned that “our swords can reach necks” and urges Palestinians to leave within 72 hours and “fight occupation in your own country.”"

Nobody cared about the myriad other inter-Arab wars with far higher casualties than Israel ever suffered upon Palestinians, even by the Palestinian's own ridiculously inflated numbers.

Similarly, any non-Muslim/Arab rallying for Palestine and not rallying in support of the Uyghurs in China and all other far more oppressed people all over the world, similarly make it clear that their issue is with Jews, and no one else.

[aygart]

Random thought: Before 10/7 millions probably supported the Palestinas cause (free of being ruled and their own state). No one accused them of wanting to kill all Jews. These same people are now labeled as pro-Hamas and want to kill all Jews.

Before 10/7 one could be excused that supporting Hamas' "resistance" was merely for the purpose of Palestinian rights. Anyone who changed their tune, whether to be more specific or to drop support entirely, can be excused for lack of knowledge. Someone who continues with the "river to sea" rhetoric now that it's meaning has become exposed to all shows us that this is what they really meant the whole time.

[CountValentine]

Before 10/7 one could be excused that supporting Hamas' "resistance" was merely for the purpose of Palestinian rights.

They were not supporting Hamas.