Building Collapses in Surfside, FL

[aygart]

I give the benefit of the doubt when I can see scenarios in which people may be right. When engineers are saying something isn't safe, I have no problem accepting that they may be right. When the people in charge say work needs to progress at a certain speed for safety reasons, I can accept that, too. Here, I'm having trouble visualizing a scenario that warrants giving them the benefit of the doubt.

As I see it, there are 3 possibilities:
1) They know exactly how many people are missing and where they were supposed to be. That number matches the numbers they've been giving at every press conference, even if the lists published by the media have the wrong names.
2) They know exactly how many people are missing and where they were supposed to be. That number does NOT match the numbers they've been giving at every press conference, but don't feel the need to give accurate information to the families or the general public.
3) They don't know how many people are missing or where they were supposed to be, and the numbers they've been giving at the press conferences are from lists compiled by various agencies and media outlets.

I know #1 isn't right, because they said so. That's why they're auditing the list now. That leaves 2 or 3, both of which are unacceptable as we near a full week since the collapse.

4) they have a list which they understand has some duplicates and inaccuracies, but are using it to map the ones they have information about and prioritizing those without bothering to audit the list in the initial fog of war.

[UKinNYS]

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1987353/watch-idf-search-team-commander-says-more-bodies-found-overnight-in-surfside-condo-collapse.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[TimT]

Why should stop their work to create images like this for the curious public?

Nobody has to stop work. There are (numerous) command centers. The officials holding daily pressers are at those command centers.

[TimT]

That number does NOT match the numbers they've been giving at every press conference, but don't feel the need to give accurate information to the families or the general public.

This one makes no sense. Why on earth would they do this ?

[UKinNYS]

#BREAKING via @ap: Fire official tells families that 4 additional victims have been found in Surfside condo rubble. Reports say the death toll is now at 16. @WOKVNews @ActionNewsJax

[Lurker]

So I guess it is a good thing they are come here for our expert analysis from all the people who were crowd control experts a mere few months ago and immunologists before that etc. regarding how it happened to help them stay safe (yesterday everyone was a building engineer) and now they will get a bonus of how to best do the SAR since now that is the hat we are wearing.

The Israeli team themselves created a rendering of the building, who was supposed to be where, and where they are likely to be found. This is acknowledged to be crucial to the SAR efforts. I'm not questioning how the building fell. I'm not questioning the experts who figure out what is safe and what isn't. I'm not questioning the methodology of SAR. I'm not trying to be an expert on anything. I'm questioning the information being given to the families (and the public) about the rescue efforts. To me, it seems to be false information. When I know families who are relying on these people to find their loved ones, and the people in charge are either intentionally lying to them or completely dropping the ball, it hurts. I'm simply expressing my frustration. I'd like to turn it into something productive, but it seems that they've realized there's a problem, and are now trying to rectify it, with more resources than I have at my disposal.

[Lurker]

4) they have a list which they understand has some duplicates and inaccuracies, but are using it to map the ones they have information about and prioritizing those without bothering to audit the list in the initial fog of war.

This would imply that the people doing the searching are the same people who are making the maps. They have HUNDREDS, if not thousands, of people who aren't engineers or part of the 210 people they have searching in the rubble who can work on an accurate list. Why would those people not bother to audit the list to give the people on the ground the best possible information?

[srap]

So I guess it is a good thing they are come here for our expert analysis from all the people who were crowd control experts a mere few months ago and immunologists before that etc. regarding how it happened to help them stay safe (yesterday everyone was a building engineer) and now they will get a bonus of how to best do the SAR since now that is the hat we are wearing.

Cute, yet still remember that this is one of the best forums out there with the largest number of top intellectual brain matter with trained brains and motivation to outdo the other  .  Although not experts as building engineers, immunologists or in crowd control, many are experts in dissecting and analyzing any topic so collectively potentially can yield unthought of ideas and perspectives.

[jj1000]

"Authorities in Florida have asked the federal government for another rescue team to help comb through the rubble as they face the possibility of severe weather in the days ahead."

-CBS News

Terrible lightning and rain here this morning.

I wonder what they are doing with the moved debris considering it is hurricane season. Are they moving it offsite for protection from that potential or leaving it for investigators.

[TimT]

Terrible lightning and rain here this morning.

I wonder what they are doing with the moved debris considering it is hurricane season. Are they moving it offsite for protection from that potential or leaving it for investigators.

Its being moved to a warehouse for investigation.

[jj1000]

Its being moved to a warehouse for investigation.

That's good, thanks for the update.

[UKinNYS]

brutal but honest (see full thread)
https://twitter.com/DeFede/status/1410255372171030531

[hvaces42]

Cute, yet still remember that this is one of the best forums out there with the largest number of top intellectual brain matter with trained brains and motivation to outdo the other  .  Although not experts as building engineers, immunologists or in crowd control, many are experts in dissecting and analyzing any topic so collectively potentially can yield unthought of ideas and perspectives.

The sense of entitlement to information is even cuter. You never get the real info.

[aygart]

brutal but honest (see full thread)

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1410255372171030531.html

[TimT]

Meanwhile, the Mexican volunteer rescue crew Brigada de Rescate Topos Tlaltelolco, which flew in to Surfside to aid the rescue efforts, is not currently being activated.

Miami-Dade Fire Rescue spokeswoman Erika Benitez said authorities are aware the Topos rescue team was in Surfside and that they will evaluate whether to request their services in the efforts.

“We know they’re here,” she said. “We have all necessary resources at this time. They will help if we need assistance. Right now, we’re considering it and if the moment comes for them to help, they will join our team.”


Soraya Cohen, who is missing her husband and brother-in-law following the collapse, posed for a photograph with the rescue crew on Tuesday and called them “the best trained Mexican search and rescue crew.”

Cohen, who has criticized the pace of rescue efforts, wrote in a text message accompanying the photo that the crew told her “they are being denied access.”

Awkward response from the fire chief earlier when questioned about Topos. He’s never heard of them.

[Jerseysteve]

Is it correct that in order for us to still have a miracle that one would have to be in a void with access to water?

[TimT]

Is it correct that in order for us to still have a miracle that one would have to be in a void with access to water?

Correct. And some breathable air.

[Jerseysteve]

Correct. And some breathable air.

Thanks - will keep on Davening

[SSLPhD]

surprised that the missing people from penthouses have yet to be found

If you watch the video of the collapse closely, you can see the upper floors slide off the top of the building before the northern part of the lower floors collapses.

[nucheiner]

Is it correct that in order for us to still have a miracle that one would have to be in a void with access to water?

Just maybe the water from the fire hoses reached someone under there…Hashem Yaazor