(False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery

[CountValentine]

@CountValentine is Chaim available?

I am glad I don't understand any of this.

[ExGingi]

Biggest proof in my mind that this conversation is not nogaya today is that you don't see gedolie yisroel from either side busy with this these days. In general, there has been so much more contact between different frum communities these days that we've learned to incorporate the mailos of each other. This whole conversation was for a different time and a different place.

100% which is why the only way this discussion comes in through the back door is through (read the thread title).

[ExGingi]

I am glad I don't understand any of this.

https://i.postimg.cc/D0ZRb8x2/Chaim.gif

Love the filename...

I actually was going to ping you regarding something in this thread, but I forgot what it was, so as my dad used to say: if you forgot it probably wasn't important.

[ExGingi]

I think that at this point, while there was some heated discussion, it has mostly been respectful. Seems like both sides got to see the other point of view, maybe time to lock and move on?

[EliJelly]

I think that at this point, while there was some heated discussion, it has mostly been respectful. Seems like both sides got to see the other point of view, maybe time to lock and move on?

But first open a new thread on another controversy that can be hotly debated.

[ExGingi]

But first open a new thread on another controversy that can be hotly debated.

צמצום כפשוטו או צמצום לאו כפשוטו?

[EliJelly]

צמצום כפשוטו או צמצום לאו כפשוטו?

Where the Alter Rebbe and the Nefesh HaChaim agree what is left to debate?

[imayid2]

Where the Alter Rebbe and the Nefesh HaChaim agree what is left to debate?

[EliJelly]

Ha, so there is where to debate. Many on the internet ( ) do equate the two. Kabalah is above my pay grade, age and stage. I'll pass this for something more juicy.

[imayid2]

Where the Alter Rebbe and the Nefesh HaChaim agree what is left to debate?

According to many the Gr’a does not hold צמצום כפשוטו at all ואכמ״ל

[gozalim]

Where the Alter Rebbe and the Nefesh HaChaim agree what is left to debate?

there's a letter from the Rebbe to R' Dessler IINM breaking down the differences

[gozalim]

Though the recent tiktokification of this particular debate was kind of bizarre

[gozalim]

Kabalah is above my pay grade, age and stage. I'll pass this for something more juicy.

sounds like the chassidim will have a bit of a lonely monolog on this one

[gozalim]

But first open a new thread on another controversy that can be hotly debated.

צמצום כפשוטו או צמצום לאו כפשוטו?

slow day at work?

[EliJelly]

According to many the Gr’a does not hold צמצום כפשוטו at all ואכמ״ל

That's why I wrote Nefesh HaChaim. He differs from his rebbe on that matter.

[gozalim]

That's why I wrote Nefesh HaChaim. He differs from his rebbe on that matter.

classically understood the גר"א held כפשוטו, and his talmid held לאו כפשוטו, one step closer to how תניא holds.
@imayid2 is suggesting that the גר"א is misunderstood/misquoted in this area, and never held quite as כפשוטו as he's thought to

[imayid2]

Just to clear this up:
This was printed in הגאון:


This is Rav Chaim himself way after the controversy, highly praising Eliach, and corroborating what he says about his involvement.

[zh cohen]

It is said that Lithuanian Jewry was mostly wiped out by assimilation even before the war. Communism raged there as well.

Perhaps the war they waged on Chassidus did harm to their future, rather than "saving Chassidus from itself..."

This is not to say that chassidim did not experience some of that assimilation, but it would be interesting to know where the rates of assimilation were higher.

[aygart]

Perhaps the war they waged on Chassidus did harm to their future, rather than "saving Chassidus from itself..."

This is not to say that chassidim did not experience some of that assimilation, but it would be interesting to know where the rates of assimilation were higher.

Uch

[gozalim]

Perhaps the war they waged on Chassidus did harm to their future, rather than "saving Chassidus from itself..."

This is not to say that chassidim did not experience some of that assimilation, but it would be interesting to know where the rates of assimilation were higher.

claims regarding this are made about the early rounds of haskala (reshima posted by @ExGingi ) but even there not for that reason.
You may be thinking of the burning of the ספרי הרמב"ם and the שריפת התלמוד

(We can all make our assumptions of which countries were most strongly affected, and why,) but I don't know if it's fair -or productive- to bring that up without anything to back it up.

The one thing you can safely say, as the Rebbe mentioned multiple times, that the derech of Chassidus Chabad has proven itself especially resilient in the face of extended communist oppression.
(requiring actual מסירת נפש )