How to beat Alternate Side/street cleaning ticket in NY?

[Saver2000]

Your letter is cute, drawing at straws, and pushing the limits  and you want the judge to agree with its cuteness part.  I would probably add a cute phrase/sentence/note of some type alluding to that so that the judge is agreeing with you rather than agreeing with the drawing at straws or pushing the limits aspect.

Writing your note in your lawyerese would make it even cuter.  Maybe an idea like..."ok, Judge, are you ready for this?" or "Don't laugh, now, I'm serious" or "Your Honor, I really thought this out.  Please humor me" etc.   The idea is that you are aware that you are stretching it a bit and you are saying it before the judge says it.  This way there's no point in his saying it to you and may take your letter in jokelike/cutelike fashion, as well, and enjoy the interaction as opposed to telling you off.  Hatzlocho.

Doesn't seem like that to me.  He's not acting cute.  He's presenting it as a legitimate claim.

[henche]

was the ticket handwritten or with their scanner

scanner

Your letter is cute, drawing at straws, and pushing the limits  and you want the judge to agree with its cuteness part.  I would probably add a cute phrase/sentence/note of some type alluding to that so that the judge is agreeing with you rather than agreeing with the drawing at straws or pushing the limits aspect.

Writing your note in your lawyerese would make it even cuter.  Maybe an idea like..."ok, Judge, are you ready for this?" or "Don't laugh, now, I'm serious" or "Your Honor, I really thought this out.  Please humor me" etc.   The idea is that you are aware that you are stretching it a bit and you are saying it before the judge says it.  This way there's no point in his saying it to you and may take your letter in jokelike/cutelike fashion, as well, and enjoy the interaction as opposed to telling you off.  Hatzlocho.

Too late, already sent.  Also, I don't expect any response; just a form letter saying "we have considered your defense and find it without merit".

Well these judges never went to Law school, they will have no darn idea what you want from them. They are hired by the NYC Dept of finance to find guilty everyone who does not want to donate money to to the City. It's one of the most corrupted guys you deal with. Hence, why you pay $115 for parking at a fire hydrant. And yeah I've yet to see a police car circling around for parking, they are very comfortable at the fire hydrants.

Yes, there's something bizarre about the way their job is to find you guilty.  I've literally been found guilty on dispute where the time the ticket said was not illegal according to the signs on the street.

[ilherman]

BTW, there is an appeals dept as well, you go in to a room and 3 judges (read, dummies) can't wait for you to leave the room and find you guilty. The fact that they don't give you an option to argue says it all. They allow you to give a speech and that's about it.  They don't bother asking you questions etc.

Guys, get yourself a SPI permit.

[mb1]

BTW, there is an appeals dept as well, you go in to a room and 3 judges (read, dummies) can't wait for you to leave the room and find you guilty. The fact that they don't give you an option to argue says it all. They allow you to give a speech and that's about it.  They don't bother asking you questions etc.

Guys, get yourself a SPI permit.

If you're really determined the next step is to file an Article 78 petition in court.
You usually won't win but you never know.
http://www.nycourts.gov/reporter/3dseries/2014/2014_04242.htm

[henche]

If you're really determined the next step is to file an Article 78 petition in court.
You usually won't win but you never know.
http://www.nycourts.gov/reporter/3dseries/2014/2014_04242.htm

good one

[joeb1]

Anyone have any experiance with bus lane tickets?

[EJB]

Got a ticket when I was in town for shevuous.  In the old days I would just plea bargain it and pay it, but since they stopped that program, I may as well get my five minutes of kicks out of writing reasons for it to be dismissed.

Here's the first idea that popped into my head, which I just submitted.   I hope they don't read ddf.

I thought that's the point of the grace periods. Clocks can be off. But I don't think they'll accept a claim like yours on the grace period.

[henche]

I thought that's the point of the grace periods. Clocks can be off. But I don't think they'll accept a claim like yours on the grace period.

Of course.  But that's about MY watch.  I still want to know how THEY knew what time it was.

Also, a machine can be off by 6 minutes too.

[AJK]

Well these judges never went to Law school

Don't believe that's accurate.

[AJK]

I thought that's the point of the grace periods. Clocks can be off. But I don't think they'll accept a claim like yours on the grace period.

Yep. One has technically parked illegally at 0:00:01 second beyond the legal time.

The grace period is exactly that, a grace for not fining you for five mins beyond the legal time, even though you're parked illegally.

The only real argument OP has is that the machine could have been 6 mins off, but that's a far cry from 1 minute off, which is possible, but not meritorious.

[henche]

Yep. One has technically parked illegally at 0:00:01 second beyond the legal time.

The grace period is exactly that, a grace for not fining you for five mins beyond the legal time, even though you're parked illegally.

The only real argument OP has is that the machine could have been 6 mins off, but that's a far cry from 1 minute off, which is possible, but not meritorious.

I'm not sure.  Once the grace period is there, if I could prove the clock was off by a minute and it was for sure 1035 (1034?), wouldn't they have to let me off?

Regardless, I hold the grace period is for my watch. They should have correct watches.

[ilherman]

Don't believe that's accurate.

So lets see what they will answer him. If they will answer him like someone who went to law school or if they will just tell him we have considered your defense and find it without merit.

[AJK]

So lets see what they will answer him. If they will answer him like someone who went to law school or if they will just tell him we have considered your defense and find it without merit.

Judges on the United States Supreme Court do that every day.

[Ergel]

Judges on the United States Supreme Court do that every day.

Maybe they didn't graduate law school either

[henche]

In case anyone was curious, the denied it.  As I expected.

Here:

The respondent has been charged with violating Traffic Rule 4-08(d)(1) by parking a vehicle in violation of officially posted street
cleaning rules as defined in Traffic Rule 408(a)(7)(iii). Respondent testifies that the summons is defective because the violation time
was incorrectly indicated. This defense is not supported with any evidence or is persuasive. The summons establishes a prima facie case and there are no facial defects. It is a violation to park in a street cleaning zone. Upheld.

You gotta like the way they threw in the legalese. "prima facie." 

Then they make you pay in advance if you want to appeal.  Last time I did that, they took my payment and didn't even bother responding to the appeal. 

I'll still appeal again, doesn't cost anything more than a stamp.  I'll point out that the ALJ used the wrong legal standard by asking whether my defense was supported by evidence instead of whether the summons is supported by evidence.

[TimT]

In case anyone was curious, the denied it.  As I expected.

Here:
You gotta like the way they threw in the legalese. "prima facie." 

Then they make you pay in advance if you want to appeal.  Last time I did that, they took my payment and didn't even bother responding to the appeal. 

I'll still appeal again, doesn't cost anything more than a stamp.  I'll point out that the ALJ used the wrong legal standard by asking whether my defense was supported by evidence instead of whether the summons is supported by evidence.

Good luck this time. What's the chance they listen to that ?

[henche]

Good luck this time. What's the chance they listen to that ?

0%

I'd be happy enough if they actually responded.

[henche]

Query: how do you testify as to time under the NYS rules of evidence?  Do you have to say how you knew what time it was, or can you just testify that "it was 1030" and leave it at that?

[ilherman]

Why don't you go down to them?

[henche]

Why don't you go down to them?

I live in Boston.