Lakewood NJ Master Thread

[churnbabychurn]

please read my illustration as to the definition of "working people"
then tell us what you think.

Let me explain with a true story:
Im in a Lakewood park a few months ago, I observe two families;
1)The father is wearing skin-tight black jeans, a pink lacoste shirt, a small black yalmuka. The wife is sitting on a bench with a shaital almost waist length, a bright colored tight top and a short skirt with sandals, no socks.-Both are busy on their iphones. The three boys standing by the lake were advised by their mother to remove their yalmukas so they would not fall in water. With their matching "mushroom" style hair cuts and non jewish clothing, at first I thought the kids where non jews...
2) During bein hasdorim, the father with a black bushy beard, a threadbare suit and a sefer in hand pushes his yingelach in the swing- their peyos flying, while he pushes a second hand stroller. the wife is hard at work teaching in a local beis yakov. 
This is lakewood today and this is why kids who come from families that have radically different priorities dont go to the same school school.
Are there any questions?

[churnbabychurn]

Hysterical

i think it was a private joke, i didnt get it either...

[Saver2000]

i think it was a private joke, i didnt get it either...

+1

Isn't it in the villas?

[Baruch]

please read my illustration as to the definition of "working people"
then tell us what you think.

Gimme a break, you don't really think the whole problem is kids from such families.
I know for a fact that's not the only people having problems.

[Baruch]

+1

Isn't it in the villas?

There's one around the lake.

[dd321]

"we try our best not to allow working people's children into our school, as a deterrent to such people moving here; if they know they don't have anyplace for their kids to go to school, working people will be discouraged from moving to Lakewood"

What's interestng is, that unfortunately the kids at risk in Lkwd today aren't from the forbidden "working families"

[Baruch]

What's interestng is, that unfortunately the kids at risk in Lkwd today aren't from the forbidden "working families"

They come from both.

[churnbabychurn]

Gimme a break, you don't really think the whole problem is kids from such families.
I know for a fact that's not the only people having problems.

right. due to lack of space, everyone has problems now.

[yuneeq]

They come from both.

+1 Though probably more from yeshivish families based on quantity.

[churnbabychurn]

+1

Isn't it in the villas?

Theres one in the Villas?
Are they meshichists? lol

[dd321]

They come from both.

not possible. These kids are atleast 15 yrs old, the forbidden working ppl didnt live here 15 yrs ago

[Baruch]

right. due to lack of space, everyone has problems now.

Not everyone. People without protektzia.

[churnbabychurn]

What's interestng is, that unfortunately the kids at risk in Lkwd today aren't from the forbidden "working families"

Kids at risk is a heartbreaking subject. dont go there...

[churnbabychurn]

Not everyone. People without protektzia.

yes but even the most yeshivish ...

[Baruch]

not possible. These kids are atleast 15 yrs old, the forbidden working ppl didnt live here 15 yrs ago

Yes they were. And they moved in with their born children. They started moving in a very long time ago.

[Saver2000]

What's interestng is, that unfortunately the kids at risk in Lkwd today aren't from the forbidden "working families"

-1

They're from all backrounds. Many of them - their families don't even live in Lkwd, they just hang in lkwd bec they have no place else to go/there's options for them in lkwd.

[Baruch]

They come from both.

Which R' Steinman points out, even kids from good families go off the derech.

[jaywhy]

I'm gonna say something a little different than what's been said until now. I know some people, like Mimi K, have branded me a "Lakewood hater" and (in an ironic twist) have made lots of hateful remarks toward me. But the fact is, all of my siblings live in Lakewood (I have bli ayin hara over 30 nieces and nephews in the school system), and I myself lived there for a few years. I have 3 brothers-in-law in chinuch, and a brother who gives a shiur. So I'm not some random crackpot posting semi-anonymous comments on an online forum - I have some concrete knowledge about certain things.

I want to point something out to you guys: the fact that Lakewood now has a working community living side-by-side with the yeshiva community did NOT come about as a result of the yeshivishe community opening their arms and announcing that every Jew is welcome. The yeshivishe community did whatever they could to keep working people out at first; only after the working community took root, and the yeshivishe community realized they weren't leaving anytime soon, did they grudgingly agree to try and live peaceably with their new neighbors. This is NOT hateful speculation on my part; this is fact, backed up with concrete evidence.

When the school problem was still in its infancy, one of my brothers-in-law was talking to the admistrators of two schools about the stories of people not getting into schools, and they BOTH told him "we try our best not to allow working people's children into our school, as a deterrent to such people moving here; if they know they don't have anyplace for their kids to go to school, working people will be discouraged from moving to Lakewood". One of them even cited two examples of working men (whose wives both happened to have been in high school with my sister, so she was able to corroborate the story) who had planned on moving with their families to Lakewood, but changed their plans once they realized that they would have nowhere to send their kids. And the person who told this to my brother-in-law did so with great pride, as of he considered this a "success story".

So, why am I mentioning this? Because yes, you guys are right, now there is a space issue. BUT... let the record reflect, that's NOT how it started. It started with far less noble intentions. It started with shameful intolerance of one's brothers and sisters, and their way of life - and back then, we weren't talking about people with tzniyus issues; it was a simple distinction of kollel vs. working.

And yes, it's very nice that now they have a Vaad who deals with this... but isn't it sad that this is even necessary? Isn't it sad that instead of schools volunteering nicely to take in those who may not be their first choice of students, they instead have to be forced by a communal body to take in those that they deem misfits? Like R' Steinman, said, it is pure ga'avah.

So again, I'm not a Lakewood hater. I go there to visit all the time, and would even attend a DO (assuming I don't get stoned ) there. I don't hate the town or the people who live there; I just don't condone what they do (yitamu chato'im v'al chotim, so to speak). There are certain things that just drive me over the edge. And that is why although I will visit often, I highly doubt I will live there again. I can respect their right to do whatever they please, but I can't see myself ever being a part of it.

#my2cents

Moishebatchy. +1000
You hit the nail on the head.

[Moishebatchy]

If the situation changed, why are you still against it, (although not in a hateful manner)?

Two reasons:

1) Because it hasn't really changed all that much. It's not like they suddenly fell in love with the working people in their midst; its just that things like the space issue are bigger and more pressing, so the "working" issue is taking a backseat. But there still is not much love lost toward working people.

2) Even whatever has changed, has not changed out of their own free will. It's like teshuvah me'ahavah versus teshuvah me'yirah - they didn't become more accepting of working people and their families because they realized they had been engaging in sinas Yisroel and decided to mend their ways; they became more accepting simply because they realized that their efforts to banish working people had failed, so they now have no choice but to make peace with the new reality. But given the choice, many would love to go back to the "good old days" of having only yeshivishe people living there.

[Moishebatchy]

please read my illustration as to the definition of "working people"
then tell us what you think.

Simple: your illustration of "working people" is WAY off the mark. Perhaps %2 of the working population fits that description.

And what pisses me off most of all about kollel people discriminating against working people is: just who do you think it is that is paying for you to sit in kollel, anyway?! Other kollel people?!