Author Topic: Site Suggestions  (Read 335452 times)

Offline mevinyavin

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Re: Site Suggestions
« Reply #1620 on: December 07, 2023, 08:05:27 AM »
Ignored is fine. I'm talking about the back and forth and the "we will check it out" and "nope, we can't open it for undisclosed reasons" etc. etc.
I once installed netfree on a tablet and it prevented me from using the sim card. It went back and forth for 3 months. Not so much fun. Oh. And they weren't able to help me in the end...
Ouch.
Still, I don't think any of that applies to Dan. He wouldn't be (that) invested in their answer. Either they unlock or they don't, and sholom.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Site Suggestions
« Reply #1621 on: December 07, 2023, 11:13:29 AM »
Nothing to lose, surely. I think I said this at the time it happened.
Email?
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Offline mevinyavin

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Re: Site Suggestions
« Reply #1622 on: December 07, 2023, 11:44:00 AM »
Email?
This is the only method of contact they allow for anyone not subscribing to them:
info@netfree.link

Otherwise you have to do it through a support ticket, which requires an account and at least one point, if I recall correctly from the last time I needed something from them.
@other users:
The Shemesh internet cafe accounts have a back way to contact Netfree that appears to bypass the point system. However, it took me more than a year (I kid you not) from when they blocked my email (zohomail) to when I was able to use it on a Netfree internet cafe computer. (If I used Netfree for my internet, I assume it would not have taken that long.) Maybe if all of us place a request separately?
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Offline Dan

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Re: Site Suggestions
« Reply #1623 on: December 07, 2023, 11:56:15 AM »
This is the only method of contact they allow for anyone not subscribing to them:
info@netfree.link

Otherwise you have to do it through a support ticket, which requires an account and at least one point, if I recall correctly from the last time I needed something from them.
@other users:
The Shemesh internet cafe accounts have a back way to contact Netfree that appears to bypass the point system. However, it took me more than a year (I kid you not) from when they blocked my email (zohomail) to when I was able to use it on a Netfree internet cafe computer. (If I used Netfree for my internet, I assume it would not have taken that long.) Maybe if all of us place a request separately?
OK, email sent.
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Offline mevinyavin

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Re: Site Suggestions
« Reply #1624 on: December 07, 2023, 11:58:16 AM »
Quote from: ExGingi
Echo chambers are boring and don't contribute much to deeper thinking and understanding!

Offline Dan

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Re: Site Suggestions
« Reply #1625 on: December 07, 2023, 12:23:11 PM »
Keep us posted!
התקבלה תגובה לפנייתך במערכת הפניות שלנו
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Offline Sam 77

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Re: Site Suggestions
« Reply #1626 on: December 08, 2023, 04:54:19 AM »

Offline Dan

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Re: Site Suggestions
« Reply #1627 on: December 10, 2023, 11:55:34 AM »
את עקרונות הסינון.
ראו כאן: https://netfree.link/wiki/מדיניות_נטפרי

יש שם פוסטים שלא תואמים את הסינון.

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Offline Moshe Green

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Re: Site Suggestions
« Reply #1628 on: December 10, 2023, 01:37:45 PM »
את עקרונות הסינון.
ראו כאן: https://netfree.link/wiki/מדיניות_נטפרי

יש שם פוסטים שלא תואמים את הסינון.
classic. classic israeli. classic netfree.

Offline Dan

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Re: Site Suggestions
« Reply #1629 on: December 10, 2023, 01:50:58 PM »
classic. classic israeli. classic netfree.
Why use them over any other filter?
Or is this itself part of יש שם פוסטים שלא תואמים את הסינון.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Site Suggestions
« Reply #1630 on: December 10, 2023, 01:55:29 PM »
Lol

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Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Site Suggestions
« Reply #1631 on: December 10, 2023, 02:28:34 PM »
Wouldja look at that, a Lifemiles rep who speaks Hebrew.
Check out my site for epic kosher adventures: Kosher Horizons

Offline Moshe Green

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Re: Site Suggestions
« Reply #1632 on: December 11, 2023, 02:41:42 AM »
Why use them over any other filter?
Or is this itself part of יש שם פוסטים שלא תואמים את הסינון.
Rabbi Berkowitz said it well. As MevinYavin quoted, "the good thing about them is once they make up their mind you can't change their mind, the bad thing about them is... the same thing.

Netfree is the Badatz of all filters. You cannot hack them, crack them, get them to open something that they even have a Chashash that there's a problem. So religiously your great with them. I myself who basically only use the internet for work related things (computer repair) and  basic communication enjoy them very much and have been using them for many years. I probably could count on one hand (and I'm not a mutant) how many times there has been a not tznius picture that showed (maybe in the background of a picture of something else). And i quickly forwarded it to them to block it. There are practically no non-Jewish news sights allowed and any social media is blocked. If they fit you needs they are literally the best. The price is only 15/month ($4) as well and its on the internet, not the device.

Only when you use the internet for other things do you start running into problems. A woman would not be able to watch a shiur of a woman because its a women and all videos with women are blocked. A person who has a buisness with facebook, x (formerly known as twitter), snapchat, instagram, etc would not be able to work. Even whatsapp is blocked. They don't work with tablets or smartphones really and they only work with certain isp's. So thats their issue and there are many who it doesnt work for them.

In short; if it works for you its the best, if it doesnt work for you its the worst.

Offline yfr bachur

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Re: Site Suggestions
« Reply #1633 on: December 11, 2023, 04:22:04 AM »
Rabbi Berkowitz said it well. As MevinYavin quoted, "the good thing about them is once they make up their mind you can't change their mind, the bad thing about them is... the same thing.

Netfree is the Badatz of all filters. You cannot hack them, crack them, get them to open something that they even have a Chashash that there's a problem. So religiously your great with them. I myself who basically only use the internet for work related things (computer repair) and  basic communication enjoy them very much and have been using them for many years. I probably could count on one hand (and I'm not a mutant) how many times there has been a not tznius picture that showed (maybe in the background of a picture of something else). And i quickly forwarded it to them to block it. There are practically no non-Jewish news sights allowed and any social media is blocked. If they fit you needs they are literally the best. The price is only 15/month ($4) as well and its on the internet, not the device.

Only when you use the internet for other things do you start running into problems. A woman would not be able to watch a shiur of a woman because its a women and all videos with women are blocked. A person who has a buisness with facebook, x (formerly known as twitter), snapchat, instagram, etc would not be able to work. Even whatsapp is blocked. They don't work with tablets or smartphones really and they only work with certain isp's. So thats their issue and there are many who it doesnt work for them.

In short; if it works for you its the best, if it doesnt work for you its the worst.

Well put.
Just a couple of haraos
Netfree is basically a crowd sourced white list. When it first started in EY, I believe it was totally free and operated on a by donation model. At that point, and even after they started charging, you had unlimited requests to have sites checked and opened so they could build a sufficiently large white list. The bachurim from Chul who used it in internet kiosks def contributed to requesting a wide number of US based sites. (I know of a particular bachur who was single handedly responsible for opening dozens of airlines, which he then used, and finished a passport...Today a choshuv yungerman in Tel Tzion) At some point they decided that the list was sufficiently large for the day to day user and today a basic subscriber gets ~15 request points per month which can be allocated to request up 15 new sites a month (if it's more urgent you can use more points to get quicker service).
On top of this they add a text based filter - scans the words on the a page and particular words will get the particular page blocked.
The image filtering started as a totally manual process where every picture was checked by a "Goy shel Internet" in India. I believe that today it may be partially automated.
They more or less operate on the shita that they will not be going to geheniom for you. If they think its not appropriate, or the site is built in a language/format that they cant filter - They will not open it. Period. I had a particular site - a game/book shop in poland which at the time offered very lucrative deals especially for stuff shipped to EY - which they wouldn't open even after I threated them that I would go use totally unfiltered internet, bec they didn't have the ability to filter it.
For better or worse they also probably offer the best Kehila system on the market - where the memuna of your kehilla can respond to your requests for stuff to be opened for beyond the restrictions of your particular kehilla. Its is used by practical all chasidishe kehillos across EY and some litvish as well.
When truly needed, they do have certain flexibility. For example Hebrew Wikipedia redirects to www.hamichlol.org.il which is based in the Hebrew wiki with the inappropriate stuff removed. The English wiki has no reasonable alternative, so it is open. This very forum, where they blocked a particular board and not the whole site is also a good example.
They do have, when truly needed and pasked that way by rabbanim - the best solution for WhatsApp (computer) available - though they don't and will not advertise that fact.
They have solutions for working with other ISPs (for traveling or the like) - which work slower and are not as foolproof - so you wont find that advertised or offered as a first solution either.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2023, 04:30:38 AM by yfr bachur »

Offline DovidStroh

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Re: Site Suggestions
« Reply #1634 on: December 11, 2023, 08:08:35 AM »
its on the internet, not the device.

they only work with certain isp's.

They have a device based software as well for those outside Israel

Offline mevinyavin

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Re: Site Suggestions
« Reply #1635 on: December 11, 2023, 12:01:26 PM »
TBH I don't know if the mods will be interested in policing to the level that Netfree requires. And likely there isn't any going back regarding JS. So for the future, if the olam can refrain from language issues (I think video posts are okay because they are blocked at the source) that would bother Netfree, the rest of the site will remain open. Otherwise it will be goodbye for many of us.
Quote from: ExGingi
Echo chambers are boring and don't contribute much to deeper thinking and understanding!

Offline Dan

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Re: Site Suggestions
« Reply #1636 on: December 13, 2023, 09:24:44 AM »
Q: I’m not seeing what the issues are, but if you can be specific, I’d be happy to remove them.


A: It is very important to us that you read the entire policy linked above so that we are on the same page.

I will link some specific parts for emphasis; however, this does not mean the other parts are unimportant.
Policy for frum sites
Frum sites that allow users to post
Frum sites that allow private messaging
What is a פריצת גדר in the Frum community

Again: We still recommend that you read the entire policy

Our understanding is that your site is mostly purely technical, however, some parts are just for spending time.
We have received several reports about content that did not meet the NetFree standard and was not compliant with our policies and therefore we have decided for now to block one such section.

I understand you want to see specifics, however, it is vital to understand that our role is not to be your mashgiach and look after your content. Our role is to protect our customers by opening only what complies with our policy.

With that, I will bring one example here. This is not the only report we have received, but it is the “straw that broke the camel’s back”.
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=133433.100
« Last Edit: December 13, 2023, 09:28:02 AM by Dan »
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Offline Sam 77

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Re: Site Suggestions
« Reply #1637 on: December 13, 2023, 10:42:19 AM »
Q: I’m not seeing what the issues are, but if you can be specific, I’d be happy to remove them.


A: It is very important to us that you read the entire policy linked above so that we are on the same page.

I will link some specific parts for emphasis; however, this does not mean the other parts are unimportant.
Policy for frum sites
Frum sites that allow users to post
Frum sites that allow private messaging
What is a פריצת גדר in the Frum community

Again: We still recommend that you read the entire policy

Our understanding is that your site is mostly purely technical, however, some parts are just for spending time.
We have received several reports about content that did not meet the NetFree standard and was not compliant with our policies and therefore we have decided for now to block one such section.

I understand you want to see specifics, however, it is vital to understand that our role is not to be your mashgiach and look after your content. Our role is to protect our customers by opening only what complies with our policy.

With that, I will bring one example here. This is not the only report we have received, but it is the “straw that broke the camel’s back”.
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=133433.100

I cant open this link which thread is it? The wedding?

Offline mevinyavin

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Re: Site Suggestions
« Reply #1638 on: December 13, 2023, 10:57:15 AM »
I cant open this link which thread is it? The wedding?
Yes. That thread. But we kind of knew that.
He linked to a page and not to a post, but if I had to guess, it was the one where someone posted a screenshot of their response to the first "hate" post.
They did say that this was the straw that broke the camel's back, though.
Also - and this is based on my Netfree experience which is not extensive but has been more or less as long as they have existed - as I said at the time, it was a surprisingly delicate response. The Netfree I knew would have blocked at least GD and Politics, if not the ENTIRE forum. Because: anyone can post anything (even if the mods can delete posts), and some posters have different backgrounds than Netfree's biggest group of users.
Quote from: ExGingi
Echo chambers are boring and don't contribute much to deeper thinking and understanding!

Offline Dan

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Re: Site Suggestions
« Reply #1639 on: December 13, 2023, 11:01:28 AM »
Should we bother making a Kosher JS or is not worth it?
TBH, the rules are so nebulous that I wouldn't really know what goes where.
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