Topic Wiki

הוי זהיר בגחלתם שלא תכוה, שנשיכתן נשיכת שועל ועקיצתן עקיצת עקרב, ולחישתן לחישת שרף, וכל דבריהם כגחלי אש

« Last edited by Baruch on March 30, 2016, 01:00:08 PM »

Author Topic: The Tamar Epstein Saga  (Read 286023 times)

Offline theduke

  • Dansdeals Silver Elite
  • **
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 95
  • Total likes: 17
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #120 on: November 09, 2015, 05:14:12 PM »
my reaction to this is that her second husband must be mentally ill if he would marry a woman with get issues, especially since there is a shiduch crisis! He can find so many single girls without any issues, especially from Baltimore!! Therefore the second kidushin is not Tofes and she is allowed to go back tot the first husband.

Offline Aaaron

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 1396
  • Total likes: 39
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #121 on: November 09, 2015, 05:15:51 PM »
my reaction to this is that her second husband must be mentally ill if he would marry a woman with get issues, especially since there is a shiduch crisis! He can find so many single girls without any issues, especially from Baltimore!! Therefore the second kidushin is not Tofes and she is allowed to go back tot the first husband.

Huh?  :o


And now that we've gotten a psak from R' Duke, we can all go home.

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7647
  • Total likes: 302
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #122 on: November 09, 2015, 05:16:28 PM »
Isn't this the BD that had already "sided" with the husband and asked RSK to stay out of it?  If so, I take it with a grain of salt at this point.
Take everything in this story with a grain of salt.

Offline Aaaron

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 1396
  • Total likes: 39
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #123 on: November 09, 2015, 05:17:38 PM »
Take everything in this story with a grain of salt.

I am.  This story is so unusual in that it can actually cause a major rift.  Sad, but intriguing. 

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7647
  • Total likes: 302
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #124 on: November 09, 2015, 05:18:09 PM »
I never heard of him even though I grew up in Monsey. Is he considered to be a boki in these subjects? The way he goes after RNG and RSK personally calling them reform makes me think that kol haposel bimumo posel
Has been involved in many of the major gittin for the last few years. Typically takes the husbands side.

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 18999
  • Total likes: 15131
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #125 on: November 09, 2015, 05:19:16 PM »
Huh?  :o


And now that we've gotten a psak from R' Duke, we can all go home.

I think the part about Baltimore is that there is a nice selection of single girls there.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 18999
  • Total likes: 15131
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #126 on: November 09, 2015, 05:21:15 PM »
Therefore the second kidushin is not Tofes and she is allowed to go back tot the first husband.

As a siman of the nonsense in your post, her being allowed to go back to her first husband has nothing to do with kiddushin being tofes but with biah
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 18999
  • Total likes: 15131
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #127 on: November 09, 2015, 05:22:22 PM »
Has been involved in many of the major gittin for the last few years. Typically takes the husbands side.
Either way, the way he is talking about a 90 year old Rosh Yeshiva speaks volumes.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Moshe123

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 6235
  • Total likes: 919
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Spring Valley
  • Programs: Lost
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #128 on: November 09, 2015, 05:47:05 PM »
Lets get back on track.
There is a Teshuva of Rav Boaron that Rav Ovadia ztz"l agreed to regarding mekach taus that can be permitted in an extreme circumstance of mental illness.
The counter-argument is here is that the husband is absolutely sane. He still holds down a very prestigeous job and that the entire mentally ill excuse is a sham.

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7647
  • Total likes: 302
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #129 on: November 09, 2015, 06:17:18 PM »
Lets get back on track.
There is a Teshuva of Rav Boaron that Rav Ovadia ztz"l agreed to regarding mekach taus that can be permitted in an extreme circumstance of mental illness.
The counter-argument is here is that the husband is absolutely sane. He still holds down a very prestigeous job and that the entire mentally ill excuse is a sham.
That is not the counter argument mentioned on the letters.
This is also not what the matir based his pesak on.

Offline theduke

  • Dansdeals Silver Elite
  • **
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 95
  • Total likes: 17
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #130 on: November 09, 2015, 06:17:32 PM »
As a siman of the nonsense in your post, her being allowed to go back to her first husband has nothing to do with kiddushin being tofes but with biah
im pretty sure what I wrote was meant to be facetious!

Offline chaimmayer

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2011
  • Posts: 1212
  • Total likes: 24
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: florida
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #131 on: November 09, 2015, 06:39:51 PM »
That is not the counter argument mentioned on the letters.
This is also not what the matir based his pesak on.
I know Rav shternbuch claims he saw a teshuva but I thought no one knows what exactly the heter was?

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7647
  • Total likes: 302
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #132 on: November 09, 2015, 06:44:11 PM »
I know Rav shternbuch claims he saw a teshuva but I thought no one knows what exactly the heter was?
True. The letter mentions a R Moshe though.

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7647
  • Total likes: 302
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #133 on: November 09, 2015, 06:49:55 PM »
There is another angle here. Was a coerced get actually extracted by Epstein?

Online avromie7

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 8376
  • Total likes: 2789
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #134 on: November 09, 2015, 07:02:16 PM »
There is another angle here. Was a coerced get actually extracted by Epstein?
FWIU it clearly wasn't because ORA would have publicized it
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 15115
  • Total likes: 2450
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #135 on: November 09, 2015, 07:05:09 PM »
I thought it was all R Shlomo Kamenstky, R Shmuels son
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Baruch

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 2615
  • Total likes: 336
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #136 on: November 09, 2015, 08:57:19 PM »
There's gotta be another side to this story.

We only have info from one side right now.

From that info, this is an open shut case.

Which leads me to believe that when (if) the other side speaks, it won't be so open and shut anymore.

Online avromie7

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 8376
  • Total likes: 2789
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #137 on: November 09, 2015, 09:55:01 PM »
There's gotta be another side to this story.

We only have info from one side right now.

From that info, this is an open shut case.

Which leads me to believe that when (if) the other side speaks, it won't be so open and shut anymore.
Truth is for years she was slandering him together with ORA y"sh, now that she got her "heter" she decides to keep quiet.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Baruch

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 2615
  • Total likes: 336
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #138 on: November 09, 2015, 09:59:22 PM »
Truth is for years she was slandering him together with ORA y"sh, now that she got her "heter" she decides to keep quiet.
I'm not referring to her. I'm referring to the outstanding Rabbanim on her side. There's gotta be more to the story.

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7647
  • Total likes: 302
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #139 on: November 09, 2015, 10:00:07 PM »
There's gotta be another side to this story.

We only have info from one side right now.

From that info, this is an open shut case.

Which leads me to believe that when (if) the other side speaks, it won't be so open and shut anymore.
You mamash can't even hear a sevara that if indeed he has OCD, once she realized that it's irreversible it is mekach taus?

Obviously normally you wouldn't use such a sevara for a mayim achronim Sheila... But with a strong belief that she is a mamash real aguna... (she isn't) etc


(Notwithstanding the savrah vekibla issue)
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 10:13:13 PM by churnbabychurn »