The Tamar Epstein Saga

[Redbull3]

Criiw that's only if there's no blatant halacha against it...

Even if there are, then fine, don't abide by the law, don't let her have the kids/money and risk contempt/jail. How do we extend the right to withold a get in this or any scenario? It is obvious to me that withholding a get is like torturing someone. Are you allowed to torture for money/custody that is halachikly rightfully yours but denied by the legal system?

[ShlockDoc]

Even if there are, then fine, don't abide by the law, don't let her have the kids/money and risk contempt/jail. How do we extend the right to withold a get in this or any scenario? It is obvious to me that withholding a get is like torturing someone. Are you allowed to torture for money/custody that is halachikly rightfully yours but denied by the legal system?

Well said.

[Moshe123]

Even if there are, then fine, don't abide by the law, don't let her have the kids/money and risk contempt/jail. How do we extend the right to withold a get in this or any scenario? It is obvious to me that withholding a get is like torturing someone. Are you allowed to torture for money/custody that is halachikly rightfully yours but denied by the legal system?

Not even referring to this case.
You can abide by the law in full and still demand what is yours halachically. Yes, you can get back some of it. The law isn't against it.

[SayWhat]

Even if there are, then fine, don't abide by the law, don't let her have the kids/money and risk contempt/jail. How do we extend the right to withold a get in this or any scenario? It is obvious to me that withholding a get is like torturing someone. Are you allowed to torture for money/custody that is halachikly rightfully yours but denied by the legal system?

You obviously don't know any of the facts in this case.
In jewish law there is no provision for a "no fault Get". Until not that long ago there wasn't even a provision for no fault divorce in the secular courts. Can you believe that even in the secular courts they valued the family at one time?

[avromie7]

Even if there are, then fine, don't abide by the law, don't let her have the kids/money and risk contempt/jail. How do we extend the right to withold a get in this or any scenario? It is obvious to me that withholding a get is like torturing someone. Are you allowed to torture for money/custody that is halachikly rightfully yours but denied by the legal system?

Withholding a get is not an action of torture, if she feels tortured she can follow halacha and remove this "torture" from herself. He is not required to help her if she won't help herself.

[AJK]

In jewish law there is no provision for a "no fault Get".

Since when does a Jewish man have to give any reason beyond "I don't want to be married to her anymore" before he can issue his wife a get?

[dealfinder85]

Since when does a Jewish man have to give any reason beyond "I don't want to be married to her anymore" before he can issue his wife a get?

according to beis shamai

[AJK]

according to beis shamai

We pasken that way?

[dealfinder85]

We pasken that way?

no, i meant it in jest
we hold like rabi akiva that any excuse works (I think)

[AJK]

I believe in Gittin it even says a man can divorce his wife over spoiling/burning his food.

That's about as "no fault" as you can get.

[dealfinder85]

I believe in Gittin it even says a man can divorce his wife over spoiling/burning his food.

That's about as "no fault" as you can get.

thats beis hillel
rabbi akiva is even finding a better looking woman works

[AJK]

So, point is, "no fault gittin" existed millenia before "no fault divorce."

[SayWhat]

So, point is, "no fault gittin" existed millenia before "no fault divorce."

That is only a man and NOT the woman

[AJK]

That is only a man and NOT the woman

That, my friend, you can take up with Gd.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Shouldn't you be in the "Where Are You Posting From Now" thread?

[SayWhat]

That, my friend, you can take up with Gd.

I don't have an issue with that but it seems some other posters did

[AJK]

Shouldn't you be in the "Where Are You Posting From Now" thread?

Fine.

[Redbull3]

You obviously don't know any of the facts in this case.
In jewish law there is no provision for a "no fault Get". Until not that long ago there wasn't even a provision for no fault divorce in the secular courts. Can you believe that even in the secular courts they valued the family at one time?

The "Until not that long ago" argument is a dangerous road to go down (women can't vote, slavery is legal, blah blah). 'Valuing the family' would be ending bad marriages, not forcing them to continue; good for the courts to realize this.

[yochiek93]

Withholding a get is not an action of torture, if she feels tortured she can follow halacha and remove this "torture" from herself. He is not required to help her if she won't help herself.

True fact

[cholent]

True fact

How would following halacha get her a get? Just curious