The Future of Lakewood

[LNS]

I don't see anyone who is unhappy about that

do you see the other conversation going on here?

[aygart]

do you see the other conversation going on here?

Yes and the chip on your shoulder is becoming more obvious with each post.

[Moshe123]

The argument about starting a new community in 2022 is faulty. it's extremely hard to start with no infrastructure, and going to KJ is not an option for most Boro Parkers. They aren't welcome and don't want to go either.
Monsey which was the other serious option also got a big influx, but Lakewood had more land available and was much cheaper.

No recent new communities were successful beyond a small core. We have explosive natural growth bh and even Lakewood is no longer enough.

[LNS]

Yes and the chip on your shoulder is becoming more obvious with each post.

sorry but that isn't the case
i don't feel anyone took anything away from anyone and all im doing is trying to point out why
nothing personal

[YitzyS]

I have a different view.

The real bad people here are the builders who come into the Planning Board begging for variances because "Lakewood residents need places to live," and after they get their ridiculous variances, they don't even advertise those houses in Lakewood! And yes, certain Planning Board members are equally guilty.

[knowitall]

I have a different view.

The real bad people here are the builders who come into the Planning Board begging for variances because "Lakewood residents need places to live," and after they get their ridiculous variances, they don't even advertise those houses in Lakewood! And yes, certain Planning Board members are equally guilty.

And get tax abatements too!

[knowitall]

Food for thought: In Non-jewish circles "affordable housing" is talked about a lot. In the frum world, not at all. We have chesed/tzedaka orgs for every other need, but no focus is on housing costs. If there was a not for profit development, I'm sure many would donate in order enable young families to have a manageable mortgage for the rest of their lives. Obviously, labor/land/materials all went up drastically, and neighboring towns have been anti-development for years, so there will be a lot of opposition.

[avromie7]

Food for thought: In Non-jewish circles "affordable housing" is talked about a lot. In the frum world, not at all. We have chesed/tzedaka orgs for every other need, but no focus is on housing costs. If there was a not for profit development, I'm sure many would donate in order enable young families to have a manageable mortgage for the rest of their lives. Obviously, labor/land/materials all went up drastically, and neighboring towns have been anti-development for years, so there will be a lot of opposition.

There is some affordable housing built in Lakewood, it's called Lakewood Commons.

[avromie7]

Yes and the chip on your shoulder is becoming more obvious with each post.

+1, but I'll respond regardless.

+1
also why cant people be happy that these people who are living in cramped tiny apartments with many kids can finally have some breathing room in a more heimishe environment... do only the " litvish" people deserve to have backyards? i don't mean to sound mean but seriously these are fellow jews who are looking to improve there families living arrangements and want all the same comforts and conveniences that you do

Why are you assuming we don't want yidden to have better living arrangements instead of assuming we don't want our living arrangements to become the same as the ones you are trying to leave.

The argument about starting a new community in 2022 is faulty. it's extremely hard to start with no infrastructure, and going to KJ is not an option for most Boro Parkers. They aren't welcome and don't want to go either.
Monsey which was the other serious option also got a big influx, but Lakewood had more land available and was much cheaper.

No recent new communities were successful beyond a small core. We have explosive natural growth bh and even Lakewood is no longer enough.

Nothing happens overnight, Lakewood took over 50 years to become what it is today. Linden is definitely making some real progress.

[yelped]

Kula Alma Moideh that we need more housing options. What is going on in Lakewood is crazy. The city has not been properly planned. Happens to be the ones coming from Brooklyn are ok with it because Brooklyn is worse. But there is no reason we should not be living a little more spread out and in normally planned developments. See all the non Jewish developments in Florida, etc.

[Yehudaa]

Food for thought: In Non-jewish circles "affordable housing" is talked about a lot. In the frum world, not at all. We have chesed/tzedaka orgs for every other need, but no focus is on housing costs. If there was a not for profit development, I'm sure many would donate in order enable young families to have a manageable mortgage for the rest of their lives. Obviously, labor/land/materials all went up drastically, and neighboring towns have been anti-development for years, so there will be a lot of opposition.

While it's a great idea, there are some challenges involved. Here's what I know from where I live and work, though obviously I'm sure some things are very different in other markets:

• Good developers in my market target a 15% profit margin on costs (not-such-great developers may target that too, but often fall short of that). Even if a developer built some housing for zero profit, we're still not talking about a 20, 30 or 40% discount- we're talking about 10-15% discount at best. I don't know if that'll really change the market for many.
• Construction is a very expensive endeavor, so obviously developers finance their construction with huge loans. Under normal terms, lenders will not finance projects where the margins are too thin or nonexistant- they need to see that the developer has healthy profits modeled so they have some room for cost overruns or delays before the project is in the red.
• Because development is so expensive, it would take an astronomical amount of donations to make significant change- think about how much money you want to subsidize each family's home and then multiply that by the number of families you'd want to help. Not exactly a simple Charidy-type raise.
• In the market where I work, most new construction in the 'affordable housing' buzzword category has some sort of government involvement, either in the form of public funding, government-backed loans, or legal mandates to build a certain % of your development as affordable. Doing it privately seems much more challenging to make sense of.

[biobook]

Food for thought: In Non-jewish Democrat circles "affordable housing" is talked about a lot. In Republican circles, which today includes much of the frum world, not at all.

FTFY

[LNS]

Why are you assuming we don't want yidden to have better living arrangements instead of assuming we don't want our living arrangements to become the same as the ones you are trying to leave.
 

the conversation started because of the focus on the type of people
i didn't mention anything about Lakewood infrastructure actually
i agree that's an issue but if you read some of the comments here its doesn't seem to be the focus ...thats all

[aygart]

the conversation started because of the effects of groups moving to Lakewood on those who are already here

FTFY

[LNS]

FTFY

please explain this comment 

The chassidim are taking over "old Lakewood". This has been going on since way before the chassidim took over south Lakewood.

maybe being that reading has no tone im having a hard time "hearing" it the way you are

[avromie7]

please explain this comment 

maybe being that reading has no tone im having a hard time "hearing" it the way you are

It was in response to this post.

I bought my house in Lakewood right before the big "Hasidic" move (May 2014), 10 year old houses in developments were about double what they cost originally. The "Hasidics" are hardly entirely at fault here. Besides for the fact, the "Hasidics" aren't buying houses in the center of Lakewood, yet prices have inflated there as well.

[avromie7]

the conversation started because of the focus on the type of people
i didn't mention anything about Lakewood infrastructure actually
i agree that's an issue but if you read some of the comments here its doesn't seem to be the focus ...thats all

I'm not sure how to respond to this when your "evidence" is one of my posts that you clearly misunderstood.

[LNS]

I'm not sure how to respond to this when your "evidence" is one of my posts that you clearly misunderstood.

i understand it was in response to that
i guess your choice of words (taking over) is what caused me to read it that way

[avromie7]

i understand it was in response to that
i guess your choice of words (taking over) is what caused me to read it that way

I didn't mean to sound bitter about it, I wasn't sure how else to point out that chassidim are buying up all available houses in "old Lakewood". There must be dozens of shteeblech in that square mile. As someone who grew up there, I see it first hand.

ETA: I shouldn't say all available houses, but many of them.

[aygart]

i understand it was in response to that
i guess your choice of words (taking over) is what caused me to read it that way

See how I made peace here?

Wow twice this week. Who's next?