Author Topic: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?  (Read 18380 times)

Offline cmey

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 462
  • Total likes: 285
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: lakewood
Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #100 on: February 03, 2018, 08:25:21 PM »
not sure your point ? You are either dimwitted or deaf. I dont drink stam yaynam, I said it should be repealed. These moronic attacks are childish. You clearly have not learned nuanced discussion techniques.

I.E. the reason stam yaynam was implemented is not relevant nowadays

“These opinions are mine, not my chavrusas, they are stuff we discuss, i'm not saying he agrees or endorses my opinions but he doesnt call me a heretic.”

I think my point is pretty clear- calling those following the generally accepted psak about non shomer shabbos touching wine a mishugas and stam yayim one of the first things that should be repealed, when the Chochmas Adam (as an aside, he might appeal to you as a posek; he actually wasn’t one of those guys who sat in kollel all day; he was a successful merchant for 15 years learning on the side), at a time when the original reasons for the gezeira were likewise not relevant, states that it is worthy of one losing his olam habah- and he doesn’t say this about most DE’ORAYSAHS- should give anyone pause. Perhaps one is missing something that is relevant to understanding the gezeira, it’s severity, and it’s applicability nowadays. Perhaps a dose of humility is warranted rather than a snap judgement declaring something a mishugas or irrelevant and having no place in 2018.

I would never call you a heretic either. Just someone who has the potential to qrow and turn his cynicism into a healthy dose of skepticism, which in the end of the day results in a person who is stronger and healthier spiritually than one who never thinks for himself. I have faith that you will get there with time. Hatzlacha.


Offline chevron

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2572
  • Total likes: 546
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #101 on: February 03, 2018, 10:01:33 PM »
The reason Yomtov Sheini was implemented wasn't relevant many years prior to your perceived irrelevance of Stam Yeynam. However, full holiness of Yomtov exist on Yomtov Sheini in the places lucky enough to observe it.

Yom tov shaini is implemented from bayis shayni. its not a 12th century porhibition

Offline chevron

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2572
  • Total likes: 546
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #102 on: February 03, 2018, 10:02:52 PM »
I don’t see how you proved that it’s not relevant today.

Just how you decided that it was “illogical from the start” and how it should also apply to beer breweries today.

(Maybe if that were as common in those days it would have been included as well)...

i.e. one can drink beer with non jews or mevushal wine with non jews etc

Offline noturbizniss

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 7118
  • Total likes: 140
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: North Jersey
Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #103 on: February 03, 2018, 10:03:11 PM »
The reason Yomtov Sheini was implemented wasn't relevant many years prior to your perceived irrelevance of Stam Yeynam. However, full holiness of Yomtov exist on Yomtov Sheini in the places lucky enough to observe it.
Lucky enough? As in ey is lacking by not having it?
READ THE DARN WIKI!!!!

Chuck Norris...
...can still do FT method
...READS THE WIKI!!!

Offline chevron

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2572
  • Total likes: 546
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #104 on: February 03, 2018, 10:07:18 PM »
I think my point is pretty clear- calling those following the generally accepted psak about non shomer shabbos touching wine a mishugas and stam yayim one of the first things that should be repealed, when the Chochmas Adam (as an aside, he might appeal to you as a posek; he actually wasn’t one of those guys who sat in kollel all day; he was a successful merchant for 15 years learning on the side), at a time when the original reasons for the gezeira were likewise not relevant, states that it is worthy of one losing his olam habah- and he doesn’t say this about most DE’ORAYSAHS- should give anyone pause. Perhaps one is missing something that is relevant to understanding the gezeira, it’s severity, and it’s applicability nowadays. Perhaps a dose of humility is warranted rather than a snap judgement declaring something a mishugas or irrelevant and having no place in 2018.

I would never call you a heretic either. Just someone who has the potential to qrow and turn his cynicism into a healthy dose of skepticism, which in the end of the day results in a person who is stronger and healthier spiritually than one who never thinks for himself. I have faith that you will get there with time. Hatzlacha.

#1 the meshugas is of restaurants that dont allow it.
#2 theres no halachik prohibition of a goy or non ss jew to touch wine, the porhibition is pouring or shichshuch.

Any one can write anything, I said yayn stam imho is not applicable today, just as in the times of the rambam he ruled that he woman who leaves the house without a chador is grounds for divorce etc

Offline chevron

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2572
  • Total likes: 546
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #105 on: February 03, 2018, 10:08:53 PM »
Lucky enough? As in ey is lacking by not having it?

@ExGingi  is a lubab. The rashab writes on the kedusha of the 2nd days of yom tov, specifically iirc acharon shel pesach but it might be simchas torah

Offline Shauly101

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2015
  • Posts: 613
  • Total likes: 49
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: לבי במזרח
  • Programs: Dirshu!
Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #106 on: February 03, 2018, 10:32:16 PM »
what bothers you? your wife's headgear? or other people acting frum?

Offline skyguy918

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 4079
  • Total likes: 837
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Queens, NY
Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #107 on: February 03, 2018, 10:43:58 PM »
I'm a little confused by this whole thing. Isn't stam yaynum a mishna? Are there meforshim who say that the mishna is not referring to stam yaynum?

Offline chevron

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2572
  • Total likes: 546
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #108 on: February 03, 2018, 11:56:21 PM »
I'm a little confused by this whole thing. Isn't stam yaynum a mishna? Are there meforshim who say that the mishna is not referring to stam yaynum?

Yayn stam is from the tosefites

Offline chevron

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2572
  • Total likes: 546
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #109 on: February 04, 2018, 12:02:27 AM »
http://seforim.blogspot.com/2006/06/one-more-book-on-stam-yayin.html?m=1

Nice of you all to throw me under the bus.im happy to show you other opinions

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7647
  • Total likes: 301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #110 on: February 04, 2018, 12:25:38 AM »
not sure your point ? You are either dimwitted or deaf. I dont drink stam yaynam, I said it should be repealed. These moronic attacks are childish. You clearly have not learned nuanced discussion techniques.

I.E. the reason stam yaynam was implemented is not relevant nowadays

Yayn stam is from the tosefites
WTH?

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7647
  • Total likes: 301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #111 on: February 04, 2018, 12:36:24 AM »
i.e. one can drink beer with non jews or mevushal wine with non jews etc
-1 there is an issur to drink beer with non jew in a bar. So sorry.

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7647
  • Total likes: 301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #112 on: February 04, 2018, 12:39:30 AM »
I'm a little confused by this whole thing. Isn't stam yaynum a mishna? Are there meforshim who say that the mishna is not referring to stam yaynum?
Of course it is.

There maybe differences and issues with whether and how much it applies  in a time when there is no chashas nesech, but it is totally incorrect and wrong to declare "yayin Stam a gezeira of the tosafists".

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7647
  • Total likes: 301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #113 on: February 04, 2018, 12:49:29 AM »
not sure your point ? You are either dimwitted or deaf. I dont drink stam yaynam, I said it should be repealed. These moronic attacks are childish. You clearly have not learned nuanced discussion techniques.

I.E. the reason stam yaynam was implemented is not relevant nowadays
There are very clear processes and procedures in halacha regarding which types of gezeiros can be repealed and by whom.

Unfortunately for you, the gezeira of Stam yayin cannot be repealed under any circumstances. (Technically this is due to the halacha that a gezeira that was nispashet brov/kol yisrael, cannot be repealed even by a Beis din that could be godol brlechochma uvminyan.)

So you really need to spend more time studying with you chavrusa. -focus on the second perek of avoda Zara in shas bavli for now, then post back here without sounding ridiculous.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 7232
  • Total likes: 1099
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #114 on: February 04, 2018, 01:34:11 AM »
-1 there is an issur to drink beer with non jew in a bar. So sorry.
I guess many didn’t get the memo.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 18828
  • Total likes: 14920
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #115 on: February 04, 2018, 01:59:01 AM »
-1 there is an issur to drink beer with non jew in a bar. So sorry.
Not so simple unless made from dates.

As we discussed over here



It's permissable to drink in a bar?



That according to RMA definitely mutar. According to Mechaber this would also be mutar if done derech arai. Typically in an airport lounge it will be. It is definitely akrai.

Note that a bunch of achronim argue on RMA.

And continues there.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 02:08:27 AM by aygart »
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 17886
  • Total likes: 8118
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinum®
Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #116 on: February 04, 2018, 04:28:17 AM »
Lucky enough? As in ey is lacking by not having it?
Definitely! Every Yid prefers Yomtov over a weekday, even if it's for the most superficial reasons. The more one gets what Yomtov is, the more one enjoys it.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7647
  • Total likes: 301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #117 on: February 04, 2018, 07:34:13 AM »
Not so simple unless made from dates.

As we discussed over here





And continues there.
I didn't say it's so simple

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7647
  • Total likes: 301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #118 on: February 04, 2018, 07:34:51 AM »
I guess many didn’t get the memo.
Oh that's for sure

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 7232
  • Total likes: 1099
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #119 on: February 04, 2018, 08:41:19 AM »
Oh that's for sure
I have many questions about this. Can we discuss them over a beer?
I just found a new supply of forks!