Peace In The Middle East Master Thread

[CountValentine]

LOL on Biden self declared anything.

Look at actions not words. 

[aygart]

Look at actions not words. 

My comment was specific to that aspect.

[CountValentine]

My comment was specific to that aspect.

His current actions backup his "self-declaring" view of Israel. 

[aygart]

His current actions backup his "self-declaring" view of Israel. 

I don't see that it has to be that way.

[CountValentine]

Is this what Hamas wants, a ground invasion?

It's a trap, warns UK spy chief, as Israel prepares for months of brutal urban warfare against Hamas in bombed-out Gaza
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/it-s-a-trap-warns-uk-spy-chief-as-israel-prepares-for-months-of-brutal-urban-warfare-against-hamas-in-bombed-out-gaza/ar-AA1ifuu3?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=LCTS&cvid=0a2d467f8b1a46bcad745d8d5ec4ed00&ei=11#image=AA1guRmo|1

[CountValentine]

Yes. The only way to achieve peace with terrorists is to wipe them out.

How do you wipe them out when you are creating the next generation of terrorist?

[Essen est zich]

https://youtu.be/XNf40sBcvKk?si=En6DoEHSTxW030KW

[CountValentine]

Biden said: "I cautioned the government of Israel not to be blinded by rage,"
If he was on DDF: "I cautioned DDF not to be blinded by rage,"

[CountValentine]

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2023/10/24/exp-queen-rania-exclusive-intw-10242301pseg1-cnn-world.cnn

[Savingsbeast]

I'm trying to understand the rationale for a ground invasion. Over the past two weeks, the more I think about it the less I understand the logic for it. I am struggling to grasp how such a strategy could lead to any significant objectives and, even if it were plausible, I fail to see a path to successful execution.

Historical precedents are not reassuring, as I can't recall a single major ground offensive that resulted in a meaningful and lasting positive outcome. Examples like Vietnam, Russia-Afghanistan, the US-Afghanistan conflict, and Russia-Ukraine just to name a few, except on a global scale like WWII.

What does the IDF think that they've figured out where others failed?

A ground offensive into Gaza presents almost every major challenge that complicate an invasion, guerilla fighters, underground tunnels, urban warfare etc.

[CountValentine]

I'm trying to understand the rationale for a ground invasion. Over the past two weeks, the more I think about it the less I understand the logic for it. I am struggling to grasp how such a strategy could lead to any significant objectives and, even if it were plausible, I fail to see a path to successful execution.

Historical precedents are not reassuring, as I can't recall a single major ground offensive that resulted in a meaningful and lasting positive outcome. Examples like Vietnam, Russia-Afghanistan, the US-Afghanistan conflict, and Russia-Ukraine just to name a few, except on a global scale like WWII.

What does the IDF think that they've figured out where others failed?

A ground offensive into Gaza presents almost every major challenge that complicate an invasion, guerilla fighters, underground tunnels, urban warfare etc.

Their goal is to wipe out Hamas. IMHO, they believe a ground evasion gives them the best possible way to do it.
1 - Will it be worth it?
2 - Will other groups just pop up and take their place?

[Savingsbeast]

I understand the stated goal. As I said, even if it were plausible [to wipe out Hamas], how do you execute it? The political support they currently enjoy; both at home and abroad, will run out much sooner than what it will take to defeat Hamas in a ground invasion. This will cost thousands of soldiers, a severely harmed economy, and tens of thousands of civilian deaths which will no doubt put enormous global pressure on Israel, no matter the circumstances.

[CountValentine]

I understand the stated goal. As I said, even if it were plausible [to wipe out Hamas], how do you execute it? The political support they currently enjoy; both at home and abroad, will run out much sooner than what it will take to defeat Hamas in a ground invasion. This will cost thousands of soldiers, a severely harmed economy, and tens of thousands of civilian deaths which will no doubt put enormous global pressure on Israel, no matter the circumstances.

The flip side would be what do you do now, just stop?

[CountValentine]

Anyway we can make this accurate or you think it is accurate?

[AsherO]

Anyway we can make this accurate or you think it is accurate?

Money can’t buy happiness, even if I can buy fireworks.

[CountValentine]

Money can’t buy happiness, even if I can buy fireworks.

How about we swap the wording to give an accurate account of what is going on?

[Savingsbeast]

The flip side would be what do you do now, just stop?

No, of course not.

What I think Israel should do is play the long game. The very loooong game.

Israel should consider and agree to a ceasefire in the near future for humanitarian reasons. They can state that they have achieved significant results in severely weakening Hamas. For the time being, they have accomplished what was intended.

Meanwhile, Israel should significantly enhance and bolster their traditional intelligence methods, networks, spies and human sources etc. the old school way.

In 2-3 years, they should launch an attack on Hamas out of left field. Within a narrow window, an operation could be launched to capture or neutralize the entire leadership of Hamas, dismantle their infrastructure in Gaza, disrupt supply lines all the way back to Iran, target their propaganda efforts, and anything and everything in between.

Consider how Hamas achieved its remarkable success. Their key strategy involved meticulous planning and a low-key approach, which included deliberately misleading the Israelis and lulling them into complacency, those were primary factors. Israel should do the same.

Remember, revenge is dish best served cold.

(If anyone is connected, let those in HaKirya know that I'm available.)

[yelped]

No, of course not.

What I think Israel should do is play the long game. The very loooong game.

Israel should consider and agree to a ceasefire in the near future for humanitarian reasons. They can state that they have achieved significant results in severely weakening Hamas. For the time being, they have accomplished what was intended.

Meanwhile, Israel should significantly enhance and bolster their traditional intelligence methods, networks, spies and human sources etc. the old school way.

In 2-3 years, they should launch an attack on Hamas out of left field. Within a narrow window, an operation could be launched to capture or neutralize the entire leadership of Hamas, dismantle their infrastructure in Gaza, disrupt supply lines all the way back to Iran, target their propaganda efforts, and anything and everything in between.

Consider how Hamas achieved its remarkable success. Their key strategy involved meticulous planning and a low-key approach, which included deliberately misleading the Israelis and lulling them into complacency, those were primary factors. Israel should do the same.

Remember, revenge is dish best served cold.

(If anyone is connected, let those in HaKirya know that I'm available.)

In other words, finish flattening all the reachable Hamas infrastructure. Get the hostages released, and then assassinate all the fat leaders in Turkey and Qatar, and the IRGC thug leaders in Iran.

[CountValentine]

In other words, finish flattening all the reachable Hamas infrastructure. Get the hostages released, and then assassinate all the fat leaders in Turkey and Qatar, and the IRGC thug leaders in Iran.

Why not have a special unit just murder eliminate all of them? Give it a catchy name like "Operation Wrath of G-d" 

[yelped]

Why not have a special unit just murder eliminate all of them? Give it a catchy name like "Operation Wrath of G-d" 

Murder? All of who?