(False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery

[EliJelly]

תפארת צבי על שו״ע

ETA
 I’m talking about the wrong person. I thought that letter was רב צדוק

Yea that was רבי צדוק הכהן מלובלין, a century later. I was talking of the "Rebbe of Lublin", or the "Choizeh M'Lublin"..

[neveryou]

Regarding thanking the snags, the snags can thank the Bal Hatanya for not agreeing to put a cherem on the gra. The talmidei hamagid wanted to put a cherem al pi kabala on the gra and they needed the bal hatanya in order to put the cherem but the bal hatanya said no.
The 3 people that had a cherem al pi kabala were Yeravam ben Nevat, Elisha ben Avuya and yashke.

The picture is a story from zevins book.

[imayid2]

Regarding thanking the snags, the snags can thank the Bal Hatanya for not agreeing to put a cherem on the gra.

לשיטתם it probably wouldn’t of bothered them too much

The talmidei hamagid wanted to put a cherem al pi kabala on the gra and they needed the bal hatanya in order to put the cherem but the bal hatanya said no.
The 3 people that had a cherem al pi kabala were Yeravam ben Nevat, Elisha ben Avuya and yashke.

Is there a contemporary source for this?

[neveryou]

לשיטתם it probably wouldn’t of bothered them too much
Is there a contemporary source for this?

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=15412&pgnum=195

From the previous rebbe

[imayid2]

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=15412&pgnum=195

From the previous rebbe

That was put out a long time after the events, without outside support these types of recountings aren’t taken too seriously by historians and the like. Of course to Lubavitchers it’s their Rebbe etc, but others don’t look at it the same.

[imayid2]

The picture is a story from zevins book.

There is no reason to believe this story ever occurred, as the כלי חמדה points out:


And especially in light of the fact the we have a letter from the kehila of Vilna describing how he dealt severely with the guy spreading the rumors that the Gra was chozer, and immediately wrote to them to let them know.

[zh cohen]

There is no reason to believe this story ever occurred, as the כלי חמדה points out:

Want to point out that the picture you posted does not say what you claim it does.

[imayid2]

Want to point out that the picture you posted does not say what you claim it does.

Ok critique accepted. It’s not his main point, but I was referring to:

אשר אני רחוק מלהאמין בה

Not sure exactly how I’d phrase it in English.

[neveryou]

Ok critique accepted. It’s not his main point, but I was referring to:

אשר אני רחוק מלהאמין בה

Not sure exactly how I’d phrase it in English.

Doesn't fit with his agenda so he doesn't want to believe that there was an erliche misnagid

[Definitions2]

לשיטתם it probably wouldn’t of bothered them too much

This one came from aygart. He corrected me once and it's now engrained in my head.
It's wouldn't have

[imayid2]

Doesn't fit with his agenda so he doesn't want to believe that there was an erliche misnagid

His agenda was to point out the baselessness of saying that Rav Rephael Homburg was an אוהב חסידים. Being that the record has been revealed about his actions we can appreciate his intuitiveness.

Methinks it’s someone else that has an agenda here

[neveryou]

His agenda was to point out the baselessness of saying that Rav Rephael Homburg was an אוהב חסידים. Being that the record has been revealed about his actions we can appreciate his intuitiveness.

Methinks it’s someone else that has an agenda here

No one said he is an ohev chassidim, just that he didn't put someone in cherem which is a serious thing just bc he didn't agree with them.

The story lesson is a powerful lesson, that we can all learn from.

[neveryou]

I don't really get when this discussion became focused on the question of "did chassidus benefit from the hisnagdus at all" (was this part of a different thread which got merged here?), but anyway, I have no problem with saying something like that, just as I have no problem saying how if not for Haman we wouldn't have Purim, and we need to recognize the debt we owe him. (y'all can take that as sarcastic as you wish. or not at all.)

ארור אביגדור אשר ביקש
ארורים ארורים כל ....

[imayid2]

No one said he is an ohev chassidim, just that he didn't put someone in cherem which is a serious thing just bc he didn't agree with them.

The story lesson is a powerful lesson, that we can all learn from.

See, this is why it’s good to read what the כלי חמדה  wrote before commenting on his “agenda”. Let me get my highlighter for you:


This is indeed a powerful lesson we can all learn from.

[jye]

Very interesting take from the Chafetz Chaim (כל כתבי חפץ חיים חלק ג)

[imayid2]

Very interesting take from the Chafetz Chaim (כל כתבי חפץ חיים חלק ג)

Lots of interesting stuff there:

The holy חפץ חיים

and more.

[EliJelly]

abundant in Chassidic sources, how דביקות is the pinnacle of עבודה and can be achieved in other ways than limud Hatorah etc etc was considered a severe “minimizing of the importance of limud hatorah”.

Tshuvos מראה יחזקאל citing the Rebbe Reb Mendel of Rimanov.

https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1689&st=&pgnum=147

[imayid2]

https://open.substack.com/pub/readingjewishhistoryintheparsha/p/the-controversy-over-moses-mendelssohn

[aygart]

https://open.substack.com/pub/readingjewishhistoryintheparsha/p/the-controversy-over-moses-mendelssohn

Is this meant to be a defense of MM?

[imayid2]

Is this meant to be a defense of MM?

In a way