(False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery

[EliJelly]

This allergy of the CS is also an invention of later generations, afaik. His Teshuvos against the Reformers have nothing to do with that.

I am not sure I believe that Haskala was ever the danger it is purported to be. Haskala and leaving Torah came simultaneously, so it is thought to be connected, and some people of the time made that connection. Like Internet and going off the derech nowadays. When a bochur leaves learning and Mitzvos, he gets a smartphone. Doesn't mean the cause is the smart phone, it may just as well be the effect.

You're entitled to your opinions and I'm fine with whatever theory you feel good about, but clearly you missed his famous drasha on the matter.

Regarding the C"S though, from his Teshuva attached below, the Lev H'ivri's theory is actually self evident and obvious. From the showering of praises to the constant begging not to cross any lines and not to come up with novel kulos etc. This is totally not consistent with his writing style anywhere. Seems pretty clear cut.

(pardon the old print, Hebrew books don't have the newer shut C"S with this tshuvos added in the back)
https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/reader/reader.aspx?sfid=31826#p=47&fitMode=fitwidth&hlts=&ocr=

[imayid2]

I never looked into what haskala was. Until now I just equated haskala with kofrim. Yesterday was the first time that I read the Wikipedia article on it (great source I know). To me it sounds
quite similar to today's modern Orthodoxy with a slight twist of using Hebrew as an everyday language.

Moses Mendelssohn was a quintessential Modern Orthodox Jew.

Haskala did came in different flavors. An excellent book on the movement is “The Jewish Enlightenment” by Shmuel Fein.

[EliJelly]

Moses Mendelssohn was lived as a quintessential Modern Orthodox Jew.

FTFY
Intent matters and it manifests in the consequences.

[imayid2]

FTFY
Intent matters and it manifests in the consequences.

Not sure what intent you are referring to

[EliJelly]

Not sure what intent you are referring to

His poisonous views on Jewish tradition, Chazal and halacha.

[imayid2]

His poisonous views on Jewish tradition, Chazal and halacha.

Can you give an example?

[EliJelly]

Can you give an example?

I've never read anything he has written (I won't - בספרי רמ״ד אל תשלחו יד), but there is plenty of what the gedolim said about him, not what they would say on lehavdil the Aruch L'ner or RS"R Hirsh.

(In his chumush we supposedly can't see anything wrong, as the story goes with the Mharam Shick and the C"S) 

[imayid2]

I've never read anything he has written (I won't - בספרי רמ״ד אל תשלחו יד), but there is plenty of what the gedolim said about him, not what they would say on lehavdil the Aruch L'ner or RS"R Hirsh.

Ok but they weren’t Modern Orthodox in the slightest.

[imayid2]

I've never read anything he has written (I won't - בספרי רמ״ד אל תשלחו יד), but there is plenty of what the gedolim said about him,

Sure they didn’t like lots of his stuff, similar to lots of Modern Orthodox aspects that those Gedolim would have an issue.

He became a big bad boogeyman later on. No Gedolim in his time excoriated him the way they did to others.

[EliJelly]

Ok but they weren’t Modern Orthodox in the slightest.

תורה ומדע and having a doctorate is pretty much Modern Orthodox, unless we have different definitions of Modox. 

He became a big bad boogeyman later on. No Gedolim in his time excoriated him the way they did to others.

Hence,

Intent matters and it manifests in the consequences.

[imayid2]

תורה ומדע and having a doctorate is pretty Modern Orthodox, unless we have different definitions of Modox.

That’s one aspect but he also fought tooth and nail for separatism. Let me know when you find any MO separatists.

[gozalim]

IINM Chassidim rejected him in his time

[EliJelly]

IINM Chassidim rejected him in his time

They always had a keener nose

[zh cohen]

Moses Mendelssohn was a quintessential Modern Orthodox Jew.

This doesn't seem correct to me, but I don't know enough about the topic to argue.

I will say that it seems like Modern Orthodox Jews might take offense at this claim, and for good reason...

[EliJelly]

This thread title should change on every single page

[imayid2]

IINM Chassidim rejected him in his time

Can you provide a source for that?
The נו״ב expressed strong reservations, I meant more than that

[imayid2]

This doesn't seem correct to me, but I don't know enough about the topic to argue.

I will say that it seems like Modern Orthodox Jews might take offense at this claim, and for good reason...

It seems correct to me and to the contrary I’ve heard this expressed by MO Jews.

What the good reason you refer to?

[Unusual]

@EliJelly Your claim that the mass shmad in Europe was a consequence of Mendelsohn is not necessarily true. In Germany, the shmad happened virtually overnight, without any haskala. People weren't maskilim, they just became regular non-frum Jews.

I read the Teshuva from the CS in Darkei Hora'ah and he treats the Maharitz Chayes with the utmost respect. And he does not mention a word against Haskala at all, only against publicizing kulos because the hamon am, i.e. the amei haaretz, will misuse them.

Haskala was not the issue at all in that part of the world.

[aygart]

This thread title should change on every single page

(False) Accusations can stay though.

[imayid2]

I read the Teshuva from the CS in Darkei Hora'ah and he treats the Maharitz Chayes with the utmost respect.

Yet was wary of him as clearly evident from the end of the tshuva about הלנת המת