Author Topic: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related  (Read 511360 times)

Offline ckmk47

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2640 on: August 05, 2021, 09:37:26 PM »
Just after the vaccine became available, the New England Journal of Medicine published a study saying gosh, darn, those who've had covid have antibodies and are immune for at least 8 months. (The length of time since the first cases.)
Since then, there have been additional studies published saying the same.


Politics has made this fact remain unemphasized.   If the authorities would consider natural antibodies
-the Jews wouldn't have been vilified for getting together.
-the elites wouldn't be able to classify all the unvaccinated as uneducated hobos.

Yes, there's been some reinfections.  The vaccine isn't 100% effective either.
How long the immunity lasts in either case isn't yet know.

My favorite cause: cssy.org

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2641 on: August 05, 2021, 09:38:30 PM »




(I don't know what you mean by concrete science)
I keep confusing science and mathematics


Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline biobook

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2642 on: August 05, 2021, 09:55:12 PM »
Which is a crime in and of itself
Explain?

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2643 on: August 05, 2021, 09:56:56 PM »
Explain?
There should be enough data to use recovery at least to some extent since it seems quite similar to vaccination  to the laymen. We don't know how long vaccination will last yet we are willing to accept that even for those who were vaccinated in November so why shouldn't we accept recovery for something too
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Offline biobook

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2644 on: August 05, 2021, 10:10:55 PM »
There should be enough data to use recovery at least to some extent since it seems quite similar to vaccination  to the laymen. We don't know how long vaccination will last yet we are willing to accept that even for those who were vaccinated in November so why shouldn't we accept recovery for something too
Again, I feel like you're conflating two separate issues - immunity and policy.

Re:immunity, we just don't know yet what factors are responsible for one person having a breakthrough infection or reinfection, while another person remains immune.  Our inability to answer this question isn't criminal... there just haven't been enough cases with enough data collected from them. 

Re: policy, I don't know what NYC will decide regarding whether to accept an antibody test as "proof" of immunity.  It's not scientifically valid proof, but perhaps it's good-enough-proof for the purpose of allowing admission to public venues.

The numbers I gave before were for the US in general, where recoverees make up about 10% of the population.  And since many recoverees have vaccinated, the unvaxed recoverees are, let's say, 5%, so easy to ignore.  But in NYC, the covid cases were higher than elsewhere, so the recoverees are a larger percentage of the total - I don't know the numbers - and I would assume that the NYC authorities will have to come up with some solution.

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2645 on: August 05, 2021, 10:12:42 PM »
Again, I feel like you're conflating two separate issues - immunity and policy.

Re:immunity, we just don't know yet what factors are responsible for one person having a breakthrough infection or reinfection, while another person remains immune.  Our inability to answer this question isn't criminal... there just haven't been enough cases with enough data collected from them. 

Re: policy, I don't know what NYC will decide regarding whether to accept an antibody test as "proof" of immunity.  It's not scientifically valid proof, but perhaps it's good-enough-proof for the purpose of allowing admission to public venues.

The numbers I gave before were for the US in general, where recoverees make up about 10% of the population.  And since many recoverees have vaccinated, the unvaxed recoverees are, let's say, 5%, so easy to ignore.  But in NYC, the covid cases were higher than elsewhere, so the recoverees are a larger percentage of the total - I don't know the numbers - and I would assume that the NYC authorities will have to come up with some solution.
I am talking entirely policy since it seems somewhat detached  from science
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline biobook

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2646 on: August 05, 2021, 10:24:42 PM »
I am talking entirely policy since it seems somewhat detached  from science
I haven't seen anything in the policy about unvaxed-recoverees.  This isn't really relevant, but at least it's a hint that there might be exceptions:


What about children and others who can’t get vaccinated?

Children under 12 are still not yet eligible to receive any of the vaccines. On Wednesday morning, Mr. de Blasio said that they would be allowed to enter restaurants with vaccinated adults if they are masked.

Some adults have received or are eligible for medical or religious exemptions that would allow them to not get vaccinated. The city has not yet announced whether people in this category will be allowed to participate in indoor activities at places that will require proof of vaccination.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/04/nyregion/nyc-vaccine-pass-answers.html

Offline AsherO

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2647 on: August 05, 2021, 10:34:20 PM »
One other point to make is that most US recoverees, certainly the Frum ones, had Alpha (maybe Beta), so their immunity which had proven to work against Alpha/Beta might not hold up as well against Delta. We won’t know until if/when Delta penetrates the US Jewish communities, and by then vaccinating will be too late.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2648 on: August 05, 2021, 10:37:29 PM »
One other point to make is that most US recoverees, certainly the Frum ones, had Alpha (maybe Beta), so their immunity which had proven to work against Alpha/Beta might not hold up as well against Delta. We won’t know until if/when Delta penetrates the US Jewish communities, and by then vaccinating will be too late.
Is there any evidence that the vaccine holds up to variants better than natural immunity? I would think natural immunity would be more effective because it's immunity to more than just specific proteins.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2649 on: August 05, 2021, 10:42:44 PM »
Not getting vaccinated and burdening everybody else is crueler. Even if there are many people doing it.

Anyways I have no issue in giving care to the untaxed insofar as it doesn't take up capacity from others. I just put it more bluntly because that what it ultimately boils down to.

Freedom goes both ways. You can't make me care for you but refuse to let me vaccinate you.
The same should apply to smokers, obese people or as you say to the “untaxed”

Offline AsherO

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2650 on: August 05, 2021, 10:49:28 PM »
Is there any evidence that the vaccine holds up to variants better than natural immunity? I would think natural immunity would be more effective because it's immunity to more than just specific proteins.

You would think. There’s extensive evidence that vaccines lower hospitalization and fatality in Delta cases, and anecdotal evidence that Delta spread is lower in states with higher vaccination.

Similar data on that scale does not exist for recoverees. If it does exist please point to it.
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Offline biobook

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2651 on: August 05, 2021, 10:59:46 PM »
I am talking entirely policy since it seems somewhat detached  from science
Bars in LA and San Francisco require customers to show "proof of Covid-19 vaccination or a negative test to drink indoors"  Maybe NYC will include this option too.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2021/08/02/no-vax-no-service-bars-restaurants-proof-of-vaccination/?sh=c32ca9a90f03

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2652 on: August 05, 2021, 11:02:09 PM »
Bars in LA and San Francisco require customers to show "proof of Covid-19 vaccination or a negative test to drink indoors"  Maybe NYC will include this option too.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2021/08/02/no-vax-no-service-bars-restaurants-proof-of-vaccination/?sh=c32ca9a90f03
But isn't the most contagious time right before a test would be positive?
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2653 on: August 05, 2021, 11:03:09 PM »
You would think. There’s extensive evidence that vaccines lower hospitalization and fatality in Delta cases, and anecdotal evidence that Delta spread is lower in states with higher vaccination.

Similar data on that scale does not exist for recoverees. If it does exist please point to it.
Has Israel had higher rates among recovered than among the vaccinated? They have been considering them equivalent and still do
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline avromie7

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2654 on: August 05, 2021, 11:08:00 PM »
You would think. There’s extensive evidence that vaccines lower hospitalization and fatality in Delta cases, and anecdotal evidence that Delta spread is lower in states with higher vaccination.

Similar data on that scale does not exist for recoverees. If it does exist please point to it.
I haven't seen anything either way. Most likely because the politicians and the media won't report it and I don't go around hunting covid studies.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline biobook

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2655 on: August 05, 2021, 11:14:35 PM »
But isn't the most contagious time right before a test would be positive?
You're right that a negative test is not a guarantee that the person is not contagious.  But the same can be said for the vaccination card, since breakthrough infections occur.  Both can help lower the probability of transmission in a large public venue.

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2656 on: August 05, 2021, 11:18:21 PM »
You're right that a negative test is not a guarantee that the person is not contagious.  But the same can be said for the vaccination card, since breakthrough infections occur.  Both can help lower the probability of transmission in a large public venue.
More or less likely than recovery?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline biobook

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2657 on: August 05, 2021, 11:19:23 PM »
More or less likely that recovery?
huh?

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Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline biobook

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2659 on: August 05, 2021, 11:27:32 PM »
Fixed
Sorry, still not parsing.  Can you put it in a whole sentence?