Author Topic: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition  (Read 101920 times)

Offline Yard sale

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #160 on: May 05, 2020, 03:17:25 PM »
https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2020/04/28/ontario-has-recorded-1012-deaths-from-covid-19.html

35 people died because they were denied medical treatment for non corona ailments because the hospitals were preparing for a surge that never hsppened.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2020, 03:21:08 PM by Yard sale »

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #161 on: May 05, 2020, 03:23:04 PM »
https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2020/04/28/ontario-has-recorded-1012-deaths-from-covid-19.html

35 people died because they were denied medical treatment for non corona ailments because the hospitals were preparing for a surge that never hsppened.
Neglects to mention their odds of dying even with said procedures
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Baglach

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #162 on: May 05, 2020, 04:41:01 PM »
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/1857294/the-boyaner-rebbes-bonfire-an-interview-with-mk-menachem-eliezer-moses.html

Only problem is Menachem Eliezer Moses isn't an MK for past 18 months takes FakeNews to a whole new level...

Offline S209

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #163 on: May 06, 2020, 10:37:22 AM »
https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2020/04/28/ontario-has-recorded-1012-deaths-from-covid-19.html

35 people died because they were denied medical treatment for non corona ailments because the hospitals were preparing for a surge that never hsppened.
Not denied, postponed, for non-emergency surgery. Are you aware of how the health care system in Canada works? You wait 6 months for an emergency procedure on a good day.

Offline S209

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Offline zh cohen

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #165 on: May 06, 2020, 12:35:24 PM »
Neglects to mention their odds of dying even with said procedures

It's
Quote
based on an analysis of historical data and “does not report on confirmed cases or individuals.”

which (if I understood correctly) compares how many of them would have died in normal circumstances to how many of them they expect to die in the current situation.

Not denied, postponed, for non-emergency surgery. Are you aware of how the health care system in Canada works? You wait 6 months for an emergency procedure on a good day.

It's almost as if those advocating extreme measures are as unwilling to acknowledge the cost of their approach as those calling for business as usual.

Offline S209

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #166 on: May 06, 2020, 12:56:41 PM »
It's
which (if I understood correctly) compares how many of them would have died in normal circumstances to how many of them they expect to die in the current situation.

It's almost as if those advocating extreme measures are as unwilling to acknowledge the cost of their approach as those calling for business as usual.
Fair points. Also, my points were fair points. If this study would occur in NY (which it should at some point) I’d agree that those 35 deaths can be attributed to the lockdown. I’m pretty sure you didn’t address my actual points, CMIIW.

Also, “those” and “those” are not equal. The two sides are not equal. Are anti-vaxxers and vaxxers arguments of equal merit because they both deny the other side’s arguments?

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #167 on: May 06, 2020, 01:13:00 PM »
If this study would occur in NY (which it should at some point) I’d agree that those 35 deaths can be attributed to the lockdown.

The analysis that they did contrasted Ontario without these delays to Ontario with these delays.

I’m pretty sure you didn’t address my actual points, CMIIW.

I'm not sure what points you made that are relevant to this article/discussion. If you'd clarify I'd be happy to respond.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #168 on: May 06, 2020, 01:15:43 PM »
Also, “those” and “those” are not equal. The two sides are not equal. Are anti-vaxxers and vaxxers arguments of equal merit because they both deny the other side’s arguments?

I think this goes under commandment #4 (begging the question).

Offline S209

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #169 on: May 06, 2020, 01:24:04 PM »
I think this goes under commandment #4 (begging the question).
ETA: Now we’re really OT again so I’m stopping. We can continue in another thread. I even deleted this post so it doesn’t come across as me just trying to get the last word in.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 01:29:10 PM by S209 »

Online cholent

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #170 on: May 06, 2020, 01:49:15 PM »
By the way, they weren't 35 actual documented deaths. It was a model that assumed there would be 35 deaths in this time period due to pushing off that amount of surgeries.
Don't ask stupid questions and you won't get stupid answers

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #171 on: May 06, 2020, 02:06:44 PM »
I was pointing out the fallacy of polarizing two sides (false dichotomy) and made my point by bringing an example I think you agree with me on. I don’t think anyone here believes necessary surgeries should be delayed, even if Ontario’s health department made the (socialist) decision to sacrifice some to save the many.

What you are missing (or ignoring) is that there is a cost in human lives to delaying "non-emergency surgery" (which is the reason they were scheduled in the first place).

If your approach (which I happened to agree with) is based on ignoring evidence that contradicts it, you have no more legitimately in making the argument than an anti-vaxxer (which is a shame because of the damage that does to the good points you have made). This is especially true because you have repeatedly accused those who disagree with you as not caring (enough) about human life.

To be clear, I don't think you were intentionally being dishonest. I was pointing out the natural human tendency to discount information that contradicts our priors. I had hoped that you would recognize what you were doing (and to your credit, you did in the beginning of your post) but then you doubled down.

ETA: typed before you modified your post. Mods, please feel free to split

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Feelings don't care about your facts

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Offline srap

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #178 on: May 10, 2020, 02:34:17 AM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/science/llama-coronavirus-antibodies.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Some interesting highlights:

-Llamas, ... more diminutive antibody can access tinier pockets and crevices on spike proteins — the proteins that allow viruses like the novel coronavirus to break into host cells and infect us
-Sharks have these smaller antibodies, too, but they “are not a great experimental model, and are a lot less cuddly than llamas,” 
-While the treatment’s protection would be immediate, its effects wouldn’t be permanent, lasting only a month or two without additional injections.
-Additional studies may also be needed to verify the safety of injecting a llama’s antibodies into human patients.

« Last Edit: May 10, 2020, 07:10:29 AM by AsherO »

Offline AsherO

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #179 on: May 10, 2020, 07:13:50 AM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/science/llama-coronavirus-antibodies.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Some interesting highlights:

-Llamas, ... more diminutive antibody can access tinier pockets and crevices on spike proteins — the proteins that allow viruses like the novel coronavirus to break into host cells and infect us
-Sharks have these smaller antibodies, too, but they “are not a great experimental model, and are a lot less cuddly than llamas,” 
-While the treatment’s protection would be immediate, its effects wouldn’t be permanent, lasting only a month or two without additional injections.
-Additional studies may also be needed to verify the safety of injecting a llama’s antibodies into human patients.

Fascinating. Reminds me of snake bite anti-venom which is harvested from horses (who are bitten by snakes) for injection into human beings. I’m sure there are other instances of such medical treatments.