Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim

[Yehuda57]

@Yehuda57 Is your MIL the SuperRebbetzin who makes this pareve cholent?  The site's been revamped, but when I first found the recipe, it said she was from Nebraska.
https://www.allrecipes.com/cook/1899320?content=recipes

LOL, I very much doubt that is her. Her recipes are more, "what's in the kitchen today?" than detailed ingredients she'd post online.

[biobook]

LOL, I very much doubt that is her. Her recipes are more, "what's in the kitchen today?" than detailed ingredients she'd post online.

And here I was thinking what a small world it is!  Just got a tad bigger after all.

I was living in a remote area, no kosher meat, no Chabad House (yet).  A few Jewish students there, so I googled pareve cholent, found this recipe, and invited them for Shabbos.  Always came out delicious.  Years later, when my parents stopped eating red meat, I dug up the recipe, but realized that I couldn't use all those umami-rich flavors (ketchup, soy sauce, BBQ sauce) because of their high sodium content.  I'm still experimenting with various umami substitutions (including ExGingi's fried onion/kishke) and it's always good, sometimes very good, but it never quite reaches the excellence of the SuperRebbetzin's recipe.

[Yehuda57]

The low sodium versions of those products funny work?

[biobook]

The low sodium versions of those products funny work?

The recipe as written has more sodium in one portion than is recommended for an entire day's worth of food, and the low sodium products are still pretty high in sodium.  I've tried to reverse engineer them, making BBQ sauce and ketchup from scratch without salt, and tried other high-umami ingredients like balsamic vinegar or portobello mushrooms. It's always different, always good, but never quite excellent.  My recent experiments are with the kishke and fried onion combinations as ExGingi suggested, but we don't have cholent every week, so it's progressing slowly.

[ExGingi]

And here I was thinking what a small world it is!  Just got a tad bigger after all.

I was living in a remote area, no kosher meat, no Chabad House (yet).  A few Jewish students there, so I googled pareve cholent, found this recipe, and invited them for Shabbos.  Always came out delicious.  Years later, when my parents stopped eating red meat, I dug up the recipe, but realized that I couldn't use all those umami-rich flavors (ketchup, soy sauce, BBQ sauce) because of their high sodium content.  I'm still experimenting with various umami substitutions (including ExGingi's fried onion/kishke) and it's always good, sometimes very good, but it never quite reaches the excellence of the SuperRebbetzin's recipe.

The Sugar in those is a non-issue?

[moko]

The Sugar in those is a non-issue?

you gotta try the no sodium, no fat, no carb, no sugar pareve version.....

[AsherO]

"The innkeeper of yesteryear was more knowledgeable than the gedolim of today"

- every mesivta rebbe

#revisionisthistory the inkeepers of old might not have even read Hebrew

[Yehuda57]

All flights to vacation destinations lead to Chabad.
All DDF threads lead to parev cholent.

[biobook]

All DDF threads lead to parev cholent.

That's what derailed my search for the more relevant thread.

The Sugar in those is a non-issue?

Sugar is okay.  We all choose our own chumros, which I guess is a theme of this thread after all.

[thaber]

A while ago I had a Shabbos meal at the house of a colleague. An erliche frummeh businessman. I wasn't sure what hechsher meat he uses. So I didn't eat the cholent. I also didn't ask him a bunch of questions. Because that would just be disrespectful.

כבוד הבריות?!
For a chumra?
What shchita available in the US is so bad that it warrants this?

IMHO you can have a Shabbos meal at someone’s house and decline the cholent without it being offensive.

Had a chabad guest do this in my home more than once. They didn't think I noticed, and was enough food without that. Wasn't offended, I am clearly not the kind of guy who is makpid on Lubavitch shechita, would have been happy to accommodate if requested though.

[thaber]

It’s practically a self-hechsher, not like the Kashrus agencies have available local mashgichim.

Local mashgichim double as shluchim more often than not

[thaber]

@imayid2 is lshitoso in the Kashrus thread. I would not apply the chachmas adam about random yidden living alone to a yeshiva educated chabad shliach (smicha or not). I believe his intent was more our beloved (and ignorant) innkeeper or fresh BT

[imayid2]

@imayid2 is lshitoso in the Kashrus thread. I would not apply the chachmas adam about random yidden living alone to a yeshiva educated chabad shliach (smicha or not). I believe his intent was more our beloved (and ignorant) innkeeper or fresh BT

There is no such distinction made by the rema and poskim in 119. Anyone you don’t know would need to be muchzak bkashrus for you to purchase food from him. Are you comfortable saying that every single chabad shliach is automatically in that category? Maybe, l don’t know.
The kashrus thread is different because the Kashrus agency isn’t the one selling you the food. Over there the question would be how much יודעו ומכירו would you need to blindly rely on them, and is finding out some basic policy information a part of that.

[koplonko]

including ExGingi's fried onion/kishke

Link?
@ExGingi

[thaber]

There is no such distinction made by the rema and poskim in 119. Anyone you don’t know would need to be muchzak bkashrus for you to purchase food from him. Are you comfortable saying that every single chabad shliach is automatically in that category? Maybe, l don’t know.
The kashrus thread is different because the Kashrus agency isn’t the one selling you the food. Over there the question would be how much יודעו ומכירו would you need to blindly rely on them, and is finding out some basic policy information a part of that.

I was commenting on the chachmas adam you brought. Haven't looked at 119 recently. I'm comfortable with RMF as stated in IGM

[imayid2]

I was commenting on the chachmas adam you brought. Haven't looked at 119 recently. I'm comfortable with RMF as stated in IGM

Chachmas adam is saying over a rema with some added flavor. The rema says that someone you don’t know needs to be מוחזק בכשרות to sell you food. Hard to claim every chabad shliach is automatically assumed so. מוחזק בכשרות isn’t necessarily a high bar, but it needs to be met.

[Yehuda57]

Hard to claim every chabad shliach is automatically assumed so. מוחזק בכשרות isn’t necessarily a high bar, but it needs to be met.

Are we using your definitions of muchzak from the eviction thread? In that case, it's the Shliach who needs to investigate the customer

[skyguy918]

Are we using your definitions of muchzak from the eviction thread? In that case, it's the Shliach who needs to investigate the customer

I know you're trying to make a joke, and I don't agree with his overall approach in that thread, but he's probably more correct than you are on the specific point of muchzak:

In landlord-tenant disputes, the landlord is generally considered to be in possession of a tenant-occupied apartment. Therefore, if it is unclear whether your assessment of the current rental market is correct, The Bais Din will likely consider the landlord to be the muchzak and ask you to vacate the property.

https://baishavaad.org/qa-from-the-bais-havaad-halacha-hotline/
(related to sufficient notice to vacate in the covid lockdown era, but the muchzak part is still relevant here)

[Yehuda57]

I know you're trying to make a joke,

Trying? Tough crowd.

(I'll answer the rest in the appropriate thread)

[Galitzyaner]

The vast majority of shluchim who are selling food or catering meals run it out of their own Chabad House kitchens. Even if the kitchen is huge and has half a dozen employees, it's still running according to the same rules they would run their own kitchen.

Incorrect IME

I've seen some shluchim have roll gold pretzels

+1 עד"ז

Let's take a step back and think about what the question is: Can I trust the kashrus of someone who uprooted themselves from life in a frum environment and sacrifices a heck of a lot for the sole purpose of enabling as many Jews as possible to fulfill more mitzvos like kashrus?

This seems to be the backbone of your argument which you keep going on at length about, however...

Are you comfortable saying that every single chabad shliach is automatically in that category? Maybe, l don’t know.

While I agree that this was definitely the case back in the day (previous gen), in this new gen this is very sadly no longer always the case ...וכו' וד"ל ואין כאן המקום

I'd guess that greater than 99% of shluchim have Smicha.

I don't even know where to start, 

Many shluchim serve gebroktz at a community seder.

I would be gobsmacked if you showed me a shliach that was cooking gebroktz in their home/Chabad House kitchen.

+1000. Unless this is something of new gen כנ"ל...

the alter rebbe doesn't hold yoshon is necessary.

Serious oversimplification.