(False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery

[Unusual]

It is callous when talking to the ones that suffered. You did not suffer. You weren't there and you don't know anybody who was there.

To claim victim status 200+ years later, as a justification for vilifying an entire group of Yidden, is the opposite of Ahavas Yisroel. Find the good in the Misnagdim (whatever name they call themselves), like you are supposed to find the good in all Jews. Don't occupy yourself with grievances of people from far away and a long time ago.

I hardly believe that a discussion about 'defining the nature of the Hisnagdus' will result in a more rational response. But if you want to know what it was, learn Nefesh Hachaim be'iyun. The Sefer was literally written for this purpose.

[yelped]

Getting conflicting reports, do you have direct access?
אבני שש, רב שמואל אהרן מיללער אבד״ק לאבאווא

I am not referring to the NB but to the others a hundred years later who still had the Chutzpah to be so small minded and not accept what was in front of their eyes.

[Dan]

It is callous when talking to the ones that suffered. You did not suffer. You weren't there and you don't know anybody who was there.

This reads like what an anti-semite would tell a Jew today about the Holocaust. You are clearly clueless about what a Rebbe means to chasidim.

This a @Shkop (or the like) reincarnation troll, right? Nobody else would join DDF and come out swinging like this.

You can have a last word if you'd like, but otherwise thanks for stopping by and stay in the Coffee Room this time please.

[AsherO]

It is callous when talking to the ones that suffered. You did not suffer. You weren't there and you don't know anybody who was there.

To claim victim status 200+ years later, as a justification for vilifying an entire group of Yidden, is the opposite of Ahavas Yisroel. Find the good in the Misnagdim (whatever name they call themselves), like you are supposed to find the good in all Jews. Don't occupy yourself with grievances of people from far away and a long time ago.

I hardly believe that a discussion about 'defining the nature of the Hisnagdus' will result in a more rational response. But if you want to know what it was, learn Nefesh Hachaim be'iyun. The Sefer was literally written for this purpose.

I’m both playing victim and the one lacking Ahavas Yisroel, you’re just discussing ideas. Got it.

[aygart]

It is callous when talking to the ones that suffered.

And those who highly respect the ones who suffered.

[Unusual]

This reads like what an anti-semite would tell a Jew today about the Holocaust. You are clearly clueless about what a Rebbe means to chasidim.

This a @Shkop (or the like) reincarnation troll, right? Nobody else would join DDF and come out swinging like this.

You can have a last word if you'd like, but otherwise thanks for stopping by and stay in the Coffee Room this time please.

I don't know if it isn't obvious, but we have no Mitzvah to love, or seek the good of, Naz is. We do have a Mitzvah to love and seek the good in other Jews. So, even if it is quite difficult, the Mitzvah has not disappeared. The difference is so obvious, it is the comparison that is odious.

And if being 'clued in about what a Rebbe means to chasidim' is a way to justify היפך אהבת ישראל, I want no part of it. Especially when it goes against the explicit command of the Ba'al Hatanya himself in his letters.

I have no idea who @Shkop is, but I have never posted before here. I was sent a link to this thread and I felt I could contribute to the discussion. I was unaware of the siege mentality of some people that does not allow them to accept facts if they disagree with a narrative that was announced by Rabbi Moondshein.

Sadiger and Tzanz managed to be meshadech with each other, even though there it wasn't the threat of retzichos but actual retzichos. I saw a כל כתבי מהרי"ץ חיות on the shelf of a Belzer Shtiebel, even after their fight. A staunch Misnaged like Reb Elya Lopian constantly had the Tanya on his table. There is no reason that people should keep up old hatred. Klal Yisroel is one, we all need to bury the hatchet.

[EliJelly]

I don't know if it isn't obvious, but we have no Mitzvah to love, or seek the good of, Naz is. We do have a Mitzvah to love and seek the good in other Jews. So, even if it is quite difficult, the Mitzvah has not disappeared. The difference is so obvious, it is the comparison that is odious.

And if being 'clued in about what a Rebbe means to chasidim' is a way to justify היפך אהבת ישראל, I want no part of it. Especially when it goes against the explicit command of the Ba'al Hatanya himself in his letters.

I have no idea who @Shkop is, but I have never posted before here. I was sent a link to this thread and I felt I could contribute to the discussion. I was unaware of the siege mentality of some people that does not allow them to accept facts if they disagree with a narrative that was announced by Rabbi Moondshein.

Sadiger and Tzanz managed to be meshadech with each other, even though there it wasn't the threat of retzichos but actual retzichos. I saw a כל כתבי מהרי"ץ חיות on the shelf of a Belzer Shtiebel, even after their fight. A staunch Misnaged like Reb Elya Lopian constantly had the Tanya on his table. There is no reason that people should keep up old hatred. Klal Yisroel is one, we all need to bury the hatchet.

I do think though that Chabad's pain and anger is only towards the misnagdim of old, they also turned the page already on the misnagdim of nowadays.

[Dan]

I do think though that Chabad's pain and anger is only towards the misnagdim of old, they also turned the page already on the misnagdim of nowadays.

All moved on, except for when the rabble-rousers that enjoy picking at old wounds and play revisionist history, and then proceed to get faux-offended.

[Dan]

I have no idea who @Shkop is, but I have never posted before here. I was sent a link to this thread and I felt I could contribute to the discussion.

[Unusual]

So suggesting Chassidus gained from the Hisnagdus is picking at old wounds. Ok.

And you call it revisionist history, yet show no proof.

[Dan]

Let's try this. Are you willing to prove that the Gmail address used to open this account was opened before 2023?

[Unusual]

Yes

If you have access to it, google the words in Hebrew letters and you will find that name posted more than ten years ago.

I can't think of any other way to prove it.

I do prefer that my identity not be uncovered, not my real name, nor the name I have used in other forums.

[gozalim]

things happened then which were painful.
saying they were justified is just asking questions
saying they were mistaken is hateful

why the difference?

[EliJelly]

{citation needed}

[imayid2]

Was referring specifically to the strong התנגדות of many Gedolim to the sefer תולדות יעקב יוסף

I seem to recall some Chassidic sources saying the Rambam needed to be misgalgal as a worm? (Maybe I’m mixing up with a מגיד מישרים?)

I take these with lots of salt.

[imayid2]

Sadiger and Tzanz managed to be meshadech with each other, even though there it wasn't the threat of retzichos but actual retzichos.

Is this verified?

[EliJelly]

I seem to recall some Chassidic sources saying the Rambam needed to be misgalgal as a worm? (Maybe I’m mixing up with a מגיד מישרים?)

Huh?

[imayid2]

Huh?

Was indeed the מגיד מישרים (thought it was in the Breslov vitriol against the Rambam)



The omitted word is “as a worm”

[Unusual]

Is this verified?

There is a book from a writer by the name of Gershon Bader called Mayne Zikhronos where he describes such stories. (I guess you meant that half, not that they were meshadech).

things happened then which were painful.
saying they were justified is just asking questions
saying they were mistaken is hateful

why the difference?

That word 'things' is carrying a lot of weight here.

The Hisnagdus, as in the announcement that Chassidus is wrong and not Derech Hatorah, was perfectly justified from their perspective. It also brought benefits, preventing some parts of Chassidus from falling off the rails.

Putting people in jail was not cool, as I wrote above. I don't think it needs to be said.

Saying that the Hisnagdus of Gedolei Yisroel was mistaken is a chutzpah. But not hateful. When you find the person that complained it was hateful, tell him.
Of course, this has nothing to do with what I wrote, said, or thought.

[AsherO]

When you find the person that complained it was hateful, tell him.
Of course, this has nothing to do with what I wrote, said, or thought.

To claim victim status 200+ years later, as a justification for vilifying an entire group of Yidden, is the opposite of Ahavas Yisroel. Find the good in the Misnagdim (whatever name they call themselves), like you are supposed to find the good in all Jews. Don't occupy yourself with grievances of people from far away and a long time ago.