Author Topic: Help search and find a mekor (source for Jewish ideas)  (Read 28316 times)

Offline Definitions

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Re: Help search and find a mekor (source for Jewish ideas)
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2023, 10:27:34 AM »
I genuinely don't understand this question, and in my opinion, it does not align with my Amunah standards.

Don't you believe that everything, no matter how random it seems, is actually orchestrated by Hashem? So, yes, if G-D wouldn't have taken us out, we would absolutely still be there. And if Pharaoh would have expelled us, that would actually be Hashem taking us out of there.

In my opinion, this question implies that throughout history, when massive empires came and went, it wasn't from Hashem...

This passage teaches us the foundation of Emunah: “Nothing happens without Hashem’s doing”.
+100
IMO the answer is that some (most) people don't have the emunah they proclaim to have.

This can be seen from other things as well. Sometimes it's blamed on bitachon but any normal person would think that's an excuse.

Just want to add. Don't make fun of those people, at least they want to believe.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2023, 10:34:41 AM by Definitions »
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Help search and find a mekor (source for Jewish ideas)
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2023, 12:27:18 PM »
I genuinely don't understand this question, and in my opinion, it does not align with my Amunah standards.

Don't you believe that everything, no matter how random it seems, is actually orchestrated by Hashem? So, yes, if G-D wouldn't have taken us out, we would absolutely still be there. And if Pharaoh would have expelled us, that would actually be Hashem taking us out of there.

In my opinion, this question implies that throughout history, when massive empires came and went, it wasn't from Hashem...

This passage teaches us the foundation of Emunah: “Nothing happens without Hashem’s doing”.
Of course massive empires come and go from Hashem.

The question is though that the בעל ההגדה seems certain that without the supernatural יציאת מצרים with all its accompanying miracles, we would still be there. How does he know that? Other nations were enslaved and liberated without this whole shebang in a much more על פי דרך הטבע way

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Re: Help search and find a mekor (source for Jewish ideas)
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2023, 02:02:31 PM »
I genuinely don't understand this question, and in my opinion, it does not align with my Amunah standards.

Don't you believe that everything, no matter how random it seems, is actually orchestrated by Hashem? So, yes, if G-D wouldn't have taken us out, we would absolutely still be there. And if Pharaoh would have expelled us, that would actually be Hashem taking us out of there.

In my opinion, this question implies that throughout history, when massive empires came and went, it wasn't from Hashem...

This passage teaches us the foundation of Emunah: “Nothing happens without Hashem’s doing”.

Of course massive empires come and go from Hashem.

The question is though that the בעל ההגדה seems certain that without the supernatural יציאת מצרים with all its accompanying miracles, we would still be there. How does he know that? Other nations were enslaved and liberated without this whole shebang in a much more על פי דרך הטבע way
1)   Why can’t the Haggada be the source?  The Author of Haggadah according to many was Moshe Rabeinu or Eliyahu Hanovi or the Rokech 
2)   There are many explanations on this verse with the most classic mentioned upthread that we would have fallen in to the shaar nun, and even if we were to leave, a part of Egyptian culture/DNA would be engraved in us forever. Another classic  along those lines, Hashem did not want us to ever be indebted to the pharaoh who released us (emphasis on the words “mishubadim”)
3)   Hashem could have taken us out in a natural way as well and we did not need the shebang, the Haggadah doesn’t say otherwise.  The reason for the great open miracles is as explained in the famous Ramban in parshas Bo that the source of our emunah comes from Yetzias Mitzraim, and one must realize that nothing is happenstance, all random happenings are miracles just like when Hashem took us out from Mitzraim.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Help search and find a mekor (source for Jewish ideas)
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2023, 02:24:14 PM »
1)   Why can’t the Haggada be the source?  The Author of Haggadah according to many was Moshe Rabeinu or Eliyahu Hanovi or the Rokech 
2)   There are many explanations on this verse with the most classic mentioned upthread that we would have fallen in to the shaar nun, and even if we were to leave, a part of Egyptian culture/DNA would be engraved in us forever. Another classic  along those lines, Hashem did not want us to ever be indebted to the pharaoh who released us (emphasis on the words “mishubadim”)
3)   Hashem could have taken us out in a natural way as well and we did not need the shebang, the Haggadah doesn’t say otherwise.  The reason for the great open miracles is as explained in the famous Ramban in parshas Bo that the source of our emunah comes from Yetzias Mitzraim, and one must realize that nothing is happenstance, all random happenings are miracles just like when Hashem took us out from Mitzraim.
1) The Haggadah sounds like it’s a logical outcome IMHO.
3) I think the Haggadah does say otherwise, as it seems to be referring to יציאת מצרים על ידי הקב״ה בכבודו ובעצמו.

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Re: Help search and find a mekor (source for Jewish ideas)
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2023, 02:32:11 PM »
1)   Why can’t the Haggada be the source?  The Author of Haggadah according to many was Moshe Rabeinu or Eliyahu Hanovi or the Rokech 
2)   There are many explanations on this verse with the most classic mentioned upthread that we would have fallen in to the shaar nun, and even if we were to leave, a part of Egyptian culture/DNA would be engraved in us forever. Another classic  along those lines, Hashem did not want us to ever be indebted to the pharaoh who released us (emphasis on the words “mishubadim”)
3)   Hashem could have taken us out in a natural way as well and we did not need the shebang, the Haggadah doesn’t say otherwise.  The reason for the great open miracles is as explained in the famous Ramban in parshas Bo that the source of our emunah comes from Yetzias Mitzraim, and one must realize that nothing is happenstance, all random happenings are miracles just like when Hashem took us out from Mitzraim.
1) Anyone other than a Navi can be asked for a source to a claim
2) Your second point is a contradiction to your first
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Re: Help search and find a mekor (source for Jewish ideas)
« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2023, 02:38:19 PM »
Of course massive empires come and go from Hashem.

The question is though that the בעל ההגדה seems certain that without the supernatural יציאת מצרים with all its accompanying miracles, we would still be there. How does he know that? Other nations were enslaved and liberated without this whole shebang in a much more על פי דרך הטבע way
If that's how you understand the verse, then I agree with the question and the given answer.

I just never understood it this way. Where do you see that the "בעל ההגדה seems certain that without the supernatural יציאת מצרים with all its accompanying miracles, we would still be there"?
I think the Pashut Pshat is simply teaching us the foundation of our Emunah on a very basic level, that without Hashem taking us out, we would still be there, which of course is 100% true and there is no question to begin with.

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Re: Help search and find a mekor (source for Jewish ideas)
« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2023, 03:40:27 PM »
What's the source that kingdoms are successful if Jewish people are there? Is it also logical/observable?
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Help search and find a mekor (source for Jewish ideas)
« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2023, 03:43:23 PM »
What's the source that kingdoms are successful if Jewish people are there? Is it also logical?
I’m not sure I like that answer so much, but yes it’s logical. חז״ל in there wisdom were משיג how the world works.

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Re: Help search and find a mekor (source for Jewish ideas)
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2023, 03:56:18 PM »
If that's how you understand the verse, then I agree with the question and the given answer.

I just never understood it this way. Where do you see that the "בעל ההגדה seems certain that without the supernatural יציאת מצרים with all its accompanying miracles, we would still be there"?
I think the Pashut Pshat is simply teaching us the foundation of our Emunah on a very basic level, that without Hashem taking us out, we would still be there, which of course is 100% true and there is no question to begin with.
To me it sounds like it's going back on what it said before
ביד חזקה ובזרוע נטויה באותות ובמופתים

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Re: Help search and find a mekor (source for Jewish ideas)
« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2023, 04:08:15 PM »
To me it sounds like it's going back on what it said before
ביד חזקה ובזרוע נטויה באותות ובמופתים
I see where you are coming from. Fair enough. (BTW, באותות ובמופתים is only written later.)

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Re: Help search and find a mekor (source for Jewish ideas)
« Reply #51 on: June 04, 2023, 07:28:59 PM »
What's the source that kingdoms are successful if Jewish people are there? Is it also logical/observable?

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Re: Help search and find a mekor (source for Jewish ideas)
« Reply #52 on: June 04, 2023, 08:20:31 PM »
מאור עינים אמור


"ואין שום מלוכה יכולה להתנהג בלא ישראל מחמת שאין להם דעת"
Still, what's the source for that?
(Btw Id imagine it's referring to daas in a aggadata way as opposed to a literal way)

Is this a censored girsa? https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=43327&st=&pgnum=95

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Re: Help search and find a mekor (source for Jewish ideas)
« Reply #53 on: June 04, 2023, 09:04:11 PM »
Still, what's the source for that?
(Btw Id imagine it's referring to daas in a aggadata way as opposed to a literal way)

Is this a censored girsa? https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=43327&st=&pgnum=95

I'm not sure, the one I posted is from my bookcase :)
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Re: Help search and find a mekor (source for Jewish ideas)
« Reply #54 on: June 04, 2023, 09:44:56 PM »
Hiding your age from your kids.
I don't know a halachic source, but I recently heard from a prestigious mechanech that the correct approach to making a bond with our children is to find out what is going on in their lives, NOT to share with them what is going on in our lives. Parents are supposed to be on a higher realm, and they should maintain a yiras hakavod. Telling them intimate details about ourselves is counter to the mehalech of chinuch of our mesorah, as it opens up the notion that we are just as human as our children and that they can argue on us if they feel different.

Again, he was not saying not to have a relationship with kids. To the contrary, he was saying that we must make it our business to know what kids are interested in and to show them that we care about their needs.

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Re: Help search and find a mekor (source for Jewish ideas)
« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2023, 05:49:52 AM »
I don't know a halachic source, but I recently heard from a prestigious mechanech that the correct approach to making a bond with our children is to find out what is going on in their lives, NOT to share with them what is going on in our lives. Parents are supposed to be on a higher realm, and they should maintain a yiras hakavod. Telling them intimate details about ourselves is counter to the mehalech of chinuch of our mesorah, as it opens up the notion that we are just as human as our children and that they can argue on us if they feel different.

Again, he was not saying not to have a relationship with kids. To the contrary, he was saying that we must make it our business to know what kids are interested in and to show them that we care about their needs.
+1
RYBs is big on this. He says many today say this attitude is outdated, but he disagrees. He says there is a difference between being friendly and being a friend. You can show love yet still demonstrate a "shtoltz" of being a parent to them.
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Re: Help search and find a mekor (source for Jewish ideas)
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2023, 01:54:51 PM »
Any source for being more makpid on מים מגולים overnight, than by day?

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Re: Help search and find a mekor (source for Jewish ideas)
« Reply #57 on: June 22, 2023, 10:10:23 AM »
Many Chassidim (to be fair others as well) horribly mangle the correct pronunciation of לשון הקודש during תפילה, in particular accenting the wrong syllables in the words.

I’ve heard this was deliberately instituted because of the infatuation of the maskilim with didduk. Anyone know the source for this?

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Re: Help search and find a mekor (source for Jewish ideas)
« Reply #58 on: June 22, 2023, 10:19:03 AM »
Pointing by Hagbah? With the pinky?
Chabad doesn't. Does everyone else?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: Help search and find a mekor (source for Jewish ideas)
« Reply #59 on: June 22, 2023, 10:20:36 AM »
Chabad doesn't. Does everyone else?
No