Non-Obvious Halachic Points that might be Very Relevant (please do not clutter)

[Moshe Green]

You get up that early?
If you would, the whole reason you wouldn't be able to eat is because you are Mekabel the fast when you go to sleep (even if you aren't actually Mekabel it with your mind...) This being the case, (of waking up before the fast starts, you were never Mekabel the fast earlier, since you don't have in mind that You will be sleeping then... As opposed to ppl who usually don't get up that early, if they should happen to wake up early w/o making such a stipulation, it's too late to eat since you were already Mekabel the fast...

(My understanding,.. Correct me If I'm wrong...)

you are correct according to the ones who allow drinking. people get up in the middle of the night to have a drink.

[EliJelly]

Why is that the pashtus? The pashtus is tefilla b'tzibbur needs a tzibbur davening together (i.e. 10) and davar shebikdusha needs 6/10. Instead they are being meikel on tefilla b'tzibbur which is more important and machmir on davar shebikdusha which is less important.

The pashtis Rambam and clearly understood by the Mshn"b is otherwise, and was the widespread minhag all over as noted by many poskim that for shtila shmonei esrei 6/10 is enough. I think Reb Chaim has a different pshat in Rambam and perhaps that's why you see some are makpid on 10, but definitely a newer phenomenon and not the common practice. תשעה עונים otoh is a clear halacha specifically for hoich shmonei esrei.

[Sammy82]

You get up that early?
If you would, the whole reason you wouldn't be able to eat is because you are Mekabel the fast when you go to sleep (even if you aren't actually Mekabel it with your mind...) This being the case, (of waking up before the fast starts, you were never Mekabel the fast earlier, since you don't have in mind that You will be sleeping then... As opposed to ppl who usually don't get up that early, if they should happen to wake up early w/o making such a stipulation, it's too late to eat since you were already Mekabel the fast...

(My understanding,.. Correct me If I'm wrong...)

Depends which fast day and when it starts. I generally get up 5:45 but during the summer I often get up as early 2-2:30ish a few days a week. So yes, most/many fast days I'm up before the soif zman achila.

[yfr bachur]

can I suggest, for those who want an uncluttered list of halachos, that after the discussion on a particular lesser known halacha is more or less compleate, the conclusions be added to the wiki in THIS thread. There, there would be an uncluttered list.

(I happen to think that this thread is a great idea...)

[EliJelly]

Another idea would be to post the short halacha pieces in color, i.e. blue/red so it's easier for those who want to avoid the back and forth discussions.

[SuperFlyer]

can I suggest, for those who want an uncluttered list of halachos, that after the discussion on a particular lesser known halacha is more or less compleate, the conclusions be added to the wiki in THIS thread. There, there would be an uncluttered list.

(I happen to think that this thread is a great idea...)

Wiki is great.
On practically everything someone will disagree.
If it's pretty much mainstream or mainstream for a large portion of the Jewish population, it should be placed in the wiki, and adding to whom it does or doesn't apply.

[HudZ]

can I suggest, for those who want an uncluttered list of halachos, that after the discussion on a particular lesser known halacha is more or less compleate, the conclusions be added to the wiki in THIS thread. There, there would be an uncluttered list.

(I happen to think that this thread is a great idea...)

Another idea would be to post the short halacha pieces in color, i.e. blue/red so it's easier for those who want to avoid the back and forth discussions.

Great idea and great idea. I think both of these should be enacted imo.

[EliJelly]

I think Reb Chaim has a different pshat in Rambam and perhaps that's why you see some are makpid on 10, but definitely a newer phenomenon and not the common practice. תשעה עונים otoh is a clear halacha specifically for hoich shmonei esrei.

@avromie7 seeing now that Reb Moshe is of the opinion that it should be 10, so obviously that's where you picked it up.

[yfr bachur]

And then there is how to do Hagbah...
There are different shitas...

Full 360...
Half way half way...

Both are correct. The Ikar is that everyone in the Shul should be able to see the kesav... Because that's when you're supposed to say V'zos HaTorah...

So why in at least two shuls that I have davened in (that are/were led by great talmidie chachamim - Rav Feivel Cohen Zt"l, and Rav Shleisinger (from Geneva)) are they insistant that it be full 360 turning leftwards?

[HudZ]

So why in at least two shuls that I have davened in (that are/were led by great talmidie chachamim - Rav Feivel Cohen Zt"l, and Rav Shleisinger (from Geneva)) are they insistant that it be full 360 turning leftwards?

I was actually just discussing this yesterday and he told me that when he used to Daven in R' Feivel Cohen's Shul, and he insisted everyone do it 360 (which is how I do it). When you say to the left, you mean clockwise or counterclockwise?

[yfr bachur]

I was actually just discussing this yesterday and he told me that when he used to Daven in R' Feivel Cohen's Shul, and he insisted everyone do it 360 (which is how I do it). When you say to the left, you mean clockwise or counterclockwise?

As far as I remember: counterclockwise, though its been 15+ years since I davened there on a regular basis

[HudZ]

As far as I remember: counterclockwise

It's funny you should be saying this bec. he was telling me that you should go counterclockwise which in his understanding is actually turning right, and said Halacha is you should go right... Though I argued that right is clockwise not counterclockwise, and he ended up agreeing with me after seeing a certain Piskei Teshuvos which I have yet to look up... (I think he said it's Siman 134,4) Regarding why it was done specifically that way, I think he told me was because that's the best way to ensure everyone will see the K'sav as opposed to half way half way...

[EliJelly]

Turning counterclockwise means showing the ksav to the people on your right first.

[yfr bachur]

Turning counterclockwise means showing the ksav to the people on your right first.

That's what I remember being told when I asked...

[avromie7]

So why in at least two shuls that I have davened in (that are/were led by great talmidie chachamim - Rav Feivel Cohen Zt"l, and Rav Shleisinger (from Geneva)) are they insistant that it be full 360 turning leftwards?

There are different opinions, and they insist on their shul following their psak. Rabbi Gissinger Zt"l's shul also has a paper by the bimah saying to do 360 (I don't remember which way)

[yfr bachur]

There are different opinions, and they insist on their shul following their psak. Rabbi Gissinger Zt"l's shul also has a paper by the bimah saying to do 360 (I don't remember which way)

So now we have three mekoros of poskim for 360, and none yet for halfway aside from "There are different opinions".
Is it a chasidish/litvish thing?

[avromie7]

So now we have three mekoros of poskim for 360, and none yet for halfway aside from "There are different opinions".
Is it a chasidish/litvish thing?

I heard second hand from R Reuven Feinstein to turn to the right and then the left, don't turn around.

[yitzgar]

So now we have three mekoros of poskim for 360, and none yet for halfway aside from "There are different opinions".
Is it a chasidish/litvish thing?

I heard firsthand from Rav Belsky to do 360. I'm pretty sure clockwise, but I can't say for certain

[imayid2]

MB says to do it like birchas kohanim. I always understood that as doing 360.

[skyguy918]

It's funny you should be saying this bec. he was telling me that you should go counterclockwise which in his understanding is actually turning right, and said Halacha is you should go right... Though I argued that right is clockwise not counterclockwise, and he ended up agreeing with me after seeing a certain Piskei Teshuvos which I have yet to look up... (I think he said it's Siman 134,4) Regarding why it was done specifically that way, I think he told me was because that's the best way to ensure everyone will see the K'sav as opposed to half way half way...

Turning counterclockwise means showing the ksav to the people on your right first.

I heard firsthand from Rav Belsky to do 360. I'm pretty sure clockwise, but I can't say for certain

I believe there is a general machlokes whether כל פינות שאתה פונה לא יהיו אלא דרך ימין practically means clockwise or counter-clockwise. The nosei keilim in Tur/Sh"a say clockwise, the Levush says counterclockwise.

See #3 here:
https://halachipedia.com/index.php?diff=32603&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop#Birkat_Cohanim

And #5 here:
https://halachipedia.com/index.php?diff=32603&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop#Kriyat_Hatorah