Author Topic: Messianism among Lubavitch  (Read 205984 times)

Offline mclovin

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #260 on: February 08, 2012, 07:14:33 PM »
I don't think such a thread should be allowed. Go to ChabadTalk or some other forum, this is DansDeals.
but it could be dealing with the issue. :P

all kidding aside i agree though

Offline jj1000

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #261 on: February 08, 2012, 07:32:49 PM »
I don't think such a thread should be allowed. Go to ChabadTalk or some other forum, this is DansDeals.
I don't want to disagree but this is just shmooze and if it's not against the T&C I don't see why someone can't post what they want. It may be pointless because this IS the wrong venue for such talk but to not allow it would be up to the mods.
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Offline moish

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #262 on: February 08, 2012, 07:35:19 PM »
This is completely off topic. Both sides have already agreed to stop the mud slinging etc. If you intend on pursuing this discussion of the rebbe and rav shach please create a new thread.
if you will notice, i was responding to a question directed to me.

i also wouldnt classify my post as of the mud slinging variety. all of my posts on the subject have been civil.

Offline jj1000

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #263 on: February 08, 2012, 07:55:38 PM »
if you will notice, i was responding to a question directed to me.

i also wouldnt classify my post as of the mud slinging variety. all of my posts on the subject have been civil.
1. Rav shach never should have been brought to this thread in the first place. So do two wrongs make a right? 2. I didn't say that you should not have responded to cbs. I said if you plan on pursuing this topic than you should start a new thread. 3.I said "mud slinging" that does not mean not in a civil way but rather bringing up something bad about someone. For example implying the rebbe called himself gd or what ever it was you were implying with your question that I very well could have misunderstood. 4. I said etc. meaning anything at all not having to do with the op's question didn't belong here.
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Offline Cbs

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #264 on: February 08, 2012, 08:10:13 PM »
there was a video on youtube a while ago. it was basically a 20 minute rant against r' shach. it has since been removed. anticipating its removal, i downloaded it to my computer. its about 18mb. not sure how i can share.

but i do appreciate your brazenness. generally, its difficult (and a tad foolish) to be confident about something someone didnt say
very hard for me to believe that something like that ever happened. but if u say so, then i would like to ask you to send it to me if you dont mind.
u can upload to dropbox and send me a link or other ways theres to send videos - PM me if you're interested.
and just saying, that if you refuse to share then its kind of worthless that you just said there was a video and deleted bec. than theres no proof.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #265 on: February 08, 2012, 08:18:44 PM »
very hard for me to believe that something like that ever happened. but if u say so, then i would like to ask you to send it to me if you dont mind.
u can upload to dropbox and send me a link or other ways theres to send videos - PM me if you're interested.
and just saying, that if you refuse to share then its kind of worthless that you just said there was a video and deleted bec. than theres no proof.

If anyone can determine when that video was from, I'd appreciate that information as well.

Offline jj1000

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #266 on: February 08, 2012, 08:24:30 PM »
If anyone can determine when that video was from, I'd appreciate that information as well.
AsherO going ot  :o I believe the video he is referring to if when a messenger of rav shach asked the rebbe about not sleeping in the sukka. Or when the rebbe implied that rav shachs tefilin were not kosher. The rebbe never called him by name as far as I know
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Offline moish

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #267 on: February 08, 2012, 08:29:29 PM »
i found a repost. here it is



remember, my point isnt that what the rebbe said about r' shach was on the same level as what r' shach said about the rebbe, i was only responding to this:
the Rebbe never ever said a bad word about him, and he even blessed him with long life! (he lived till 107).
which i pointed out was not true
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 09:07:38 PM by moish »

Offline moish

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #268 on: February 08, 2012, 08:59:13 PM »
For example implying the rebbe called himself gd or what ever it was you were implying with your question that I very well could have misunderstood.
yes, you misundertood. my intent was not to imply such a thing. i was merely trying to find out if what my friend told me was true. thats all

Offline gozalim

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #269 on: February 09, 2012, 12:08:59 AM »
AsherO going ot  :o I believe the video he is referring to if when a messenger of rav shach asked the rebbe about not sleeping in the sukka. Or when the rebbe implied that rav shachs tefilin were not kosher. The rebbe never called him by name as far as I know
20 minutes has got to be the sukkah question. while it may be heated no one is mentioned by name. IIRC the Rebbe was attacking the question as being provocational and spoke negatively about 'whoever' asked the question and attempted to stir up unrest. I believe if you watch the video the attack is more about the question.

also I'd be more surprised if there was something like that at farbrengen (public) as opposed to Dollars

Offline Avid Reader

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #270 on: February 09, 2012, 12:22:13 AM »
I just want to say, we should all realize that we have alot more in common then we may think. We choose  - or were born into famileis that choose different paths in serving Hashem. I'd say most of us Lubab's were not Lubavitch going back very far. In my family alone, I come from very varied backgrounds. On one line I come from some Yichus'deke 'Gedoiley Hamisnadim. My grandmother "AH was born in Lithuania and never saw a Chasid before her late 20's. On another line I come from a German Torah Im Derech Eretz family, etc.

On the flip side, I'm aware of plenty of Litvaks who are related or are actuall direct descendants of Chasidim and Rebbe's.

We each have our way of serving Hashem. Serious disccusion is good, but let's keep it civil and respectful.

Offline Drago

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #271 on: February 09, 2012, 01:17:06 AM »
I just want to say, we should all realize that we have alot more in common then we may think. We choose  - or were born into famileis that choose different paths in serving Hashem. I'd say most of us Lubab's were not Lubavitch going back very far. In my family alone, I come from very varied backgrounds. On one line I come from some Yichus'deke 'Gedoiley Hamisnadim. My grandmother "AH was born in Lithuania and never saw a Chasid before her late 20's. On another line I come from a German Torah Im Derech Eretz family, etc.

On the flip side, I'm aware of plenty of Litvaks who are related or are actuall direct descendants of Chasidim and Rebbe's.

We each have our way of serving Hashem. Serious disccusion is good, but let's keep it civil and respectful.

+1

We have enough external enemies, no need to create internal enemies as well

Offline jj1000

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #272 on: February 09, 2012, 01:39:04 AM »
20 minutes has got to be the sukkah question. while it may be heated no one is mentioned by name. IIRC the Rebbe was attacking the question as being provocational and spoke negatively about 'whoever' asked the question and attempted to stir up unrest. I believe if you watch the video the attack is more about the question.

also I'd be more surprised if there was something like that at farbrengen (public) as opposed to Dollars
I heard a nice pshat that the when the rebbe saw something or heard something he disagreed with, he did not mention the person who held that shitah by name, (in this case rav shach), because it wasn't him he had a problem with (he loved every jew), but rather the shitah. I didn't see this in a sefer, but the point is a true thing. That We need to realize that as Jews we all have one father in heaven and to bring moshiach as the rebbe said in that talk is to live in complete unity. In other words plus amillion to Avid Reader  ;D
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Offline mclovin

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #273 on: February 09, 2012, 01:50:25 PM »
also I'd be more surprised if there was something like that at farbrengen (public) as opposed to Dollars
whats dollars?

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #274 on: February 09, 2012, 02:57:52 PM »
The Rebbe gave out dollars for ppl to give to tzedakah. It served two functions. In addition to the obvious (the mitzvah of tzedakah) it allowed chassidim (as well as tens of thousands of ppl from all walks of life) the opportunity to interact with the Rebbe one-on-one. (The Rebbe for the most part stopped giving yechidus - private audiences - when it became physically impossible to allot enough time for all the ppl who wanted to speak with the Rebbe.) Hence the massive lines - hours long - every Sunday in 770.

Offline mclovin

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #275 on: February 09, 2012, 07:38:18 PM »
so by dollars he meant private?

Offline Cbs

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #276 on: February 09, 2012, 07:47:50 PM »
so by dollars he meant private?
whats ur question exactly?
ppl would line on a get a 1 dollar be with a quick 2 word bracha. some would quickly ask their own bakoshos and the rebbe would give another bracha with another dollar. every person was something else. but in order to keep the line flowing the secretaries tried getting ppl  to move forward so u barely had time to ask (besides that the chassidim would never say a word)

Offline mclovin

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #277 on: February 09, 2012, 07:56:56 PM »
whats ur question exactly?
ppl would line on a get a 1 dollar be with a quick 2 word bracha. some would quickly ask their own bakoshos and the rebbe would give another bracha with another dollar. every person was something else. but in order to keep the line flowing the secretaries tried getting ppl  to move forward so u barely had time to ask (besides that the chassidim would never say a word)
20 minutes has got to be the sukkah question. while it may be heated no one is mentioned by name. IIRC the Rebbe was attacking the question as being provocational and spoke negatively about 'whoever' asked the question and attempted to stir up unrest. I believe if you watch the video the attack is more about the question.

also I'd be more surprised if there was something like that at farbrengen (public) as opposed to Dollars
i dont understand what he said in that line. asking if by dollars he meant private vs public. i couldnt really tell what whas going on in the video, ie where/when it happened

Offline Cbs

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #278 on: February 09, 2012, 07:59:28 PM »
i dont understand what he said in that line. asking if by dollars he meant private vs public. i couldnt really tell what whas going on in the video, ie where/when it happened
oh i see. dollars was considered kinda private. the only thing is that there are videos of lots and lots of "dollar passings" - farbrengen was officially public

Offline mclovin

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #279 on: February 09, 2012, 08:01:23 PM »
oh i see. dollars was considered kinda private. the only thing is that there are videos of lots and lots of "dollar passings" - farbrengen was officially public
got it. thanks