Author Topic: Messianism among Lubavitch  (Read 146617 times)

Online yare

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 2117
  • Total likes: 1
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #405 on: January 15, 2013, 10:01:05 AM »
that if the leaders of the Missnagdim in THAT generation would have done their due duty of ושאלת ודרשת וחקרת היטב it would have saved much Tza'ar and Ogmas Nefesh for generations to come.
do you really think that you, or any other lubavitcher, including the rebbe when he was alive, is capable of judging how the gaon conducted himself?   really?       would you like to offer some of your insights on rashi and the ramban next?  or maybe rashbi?          stick to the last 50 years where people can actually pretend to have an understanding of what went on.   

Offline Achas Veachas

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4223
  • Total likes: 15
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #406 on: January 15, 2013, 10:05:46 AM »
do you really think that you, or any other lubavitcher, including the rebbe when he was alive, is capable of judging how the gaon conducted himself?   really?       would you like to offer some of your insights on rashi and the ramban next?  or maybe rashbi?          stick to the last 50 years where people can actually pretend to have an understanding of what went on.   
No I do not think I can judge people who lived 200 years ago (i can't even judge people who are around today properly) Everything i said was based on letters the Alter Rebbe sent to Reb Mendel Horodoker and R' Avraham Kalisker A"H in Eretz Yisroel. As well as other sources from that time
Curiosity made the cat smarter.

Offline Drago

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 8147
  • Total likes: 19
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 18
    • View Profile
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #407 on: January 15, 2013, 10:44:10 AM »
I'm asking this to the chabadnikim here.
When I see seforim written after the Rebbe passed away and it refers to him as Shlita and not ZT"L, does it mean it was written by a nut, or is it b/c he is still 'alive' through his teachings?

And if it's the latter, do they do this with all their rabonnim?

(My bad if this was asked before/)

Online jj1000

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 10804
  • Total likes: 989
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8015
    • View Profile
  • Location: The value of a forum such as this one is not in that one can post a question and receive an answer, but in that the question has most likely been asked before, and the answer is available to him that will but only use the search function.
  • Programs: 1. Search on google. 2. Search in the right board of DDF with a general word or two. 3. Read the wiki. 4. Read the thread. 5. Ask away.
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #408 on: January 15, 2013, 10:54:11 AM »
You managed to find a nut. There are nuts in every sect btw thought Tzfat does seem to be blessed disproportionately.
There was a group of elokistim in Australia. They were put into charem by the Chabad beis din, as would be anyone else who believes in equating the Rebbe and Hashem.
See my 5 step program to your left <--

(Real signature under my location)

Offline Drago

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 8147
  • Total likes: 19
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 18
    • View Profile
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #409 on: January 15, 2013, 11:16:52 AM »
elokistim
What a great name for them!
Do they have any influence at 770. or is there a certain limit to the madness there?

Online jj1000

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 10804
  • Total likes: 989
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8015
    • View Profile
  • Location: The value of a forum such as this one is not in that one can post a question and receive an answer, but in that the question has most likely been asked before, and the answer is available to him that will but only use the search function.
  • Programs: 1. Search on google. 2. Search in the right board of DDF with a general word or two. 3. Read the wiki. 4. Read the thread. 5. Ask away.
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #410 on: January 15, 2013, 11:19:18 AM »
What a great name for them!
Do they have any influence at 770. or is there a certain limit to the madness there?
No influence. I've never even met one.
See my 5 step program to your left <--

(Real signature under my location)

Offline Achas Veachas

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4223
  • Total likes: 15
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #411 on: January 15, 2013, 11:21:36 AM »
What a great name for them!
Do they have any influence at 770. or is there a certain limit to the madness there?
AFAIK they don't have much influence in 770, in fact other than this group in Oz and a 1 crazy guy that used to live in Tzfas I never heard of any other reports
Curiosity made the cat smarter.

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7181
  • Total likes: 271
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #412 on: January 15, 2013, 11:52:33 AM »
Iv heard rumors of chabdniks at 770 while saying "Vanachnu korim umishtachavim" they bow to a portrait of the rebbeh, I have no idea if this is true. (maybe its a couple of nuts).Is there a photo of the rebbeh in the shul? Is it on the mizrach wall?
Dunno, but they dont say such stories about any other chassidus...

Offline Achas Veachas

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4223
  • Total likes: 15
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #413 on: January 15, 2013, 11:55:24 AM »
Iv heard rumors of chabdniks at 770 while saying "Vanachnu korim umishtachavim" they bow to a portrait of the rebbeh, I have no idea if this is true.
There are no pictures of the Rebbe hanging anywhere in 770
Curiosity made the cat smarter.

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7181
  • Total likes: 271
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #414 on: January 15, 2013, 11:56:51 AM »
There are no pictures of the Rebbe hanging anywhere in 770
Interesting, Im kinda pleasantly surprised

Online jj1000

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 10804
  • Total likes: 989
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8015
    • View Profile
  • Location: The value of a forum such as this one is not in that one can post a question and receive an answer, but in that the question has most likely been asked before, and the answer is available to him that will but only use the search function.
  • Programs: 1. Search on google. 2. Search in the right board of DDF with a general word or two. 3. Read the wiki. 4. Read the thread. 5. Ask away.
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #415 on: January 15, 2013, 11:57:32 AM »
but they dont say such stories about any other chassidus...
I wish everyone would read Rabbi Rappaports book in response to Berger.  The Messiah Problem: Berger, the Angel and the Scandal of Reckless Indiscrimination (Ilford 2002)

He has so much solid information and sources in halacha it makes this whole thread a joke.

And he talks about other chassidim that do more extreme things.
See my 5 step program to your left <--

(Real signature under my location)

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 53922
  • Total likes: 2499
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16441
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #416 on: January 15, 2013, 12:00:12 PM »
Iv heard rumors of chabdniks at 770 while saying "Vanachnu korim umishtachavim" they bow to a portrait of the rebbeh, I have no idea if this is true. (maybe its a couple of nuts).Is there a photo of the rebbeh in the shul? Is it on the mizrach wall?
Dunno, but they dont say such stories about any other chassidus...
Sad how misinformed you are and willing to accept l"h/rumors like that.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Achas Veachas

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4223
  • Total likes: 15
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #417 on: January 15, 2013, 12:04:00 PM »
Interesting, Im kinda pleasantly surprised
Surprised? See Kitzur Shu"a Siman 18 Se'If 8.

In general whenever you hear a rumor (about anyone, mikal Shekein about an Eidah Shleimah BeYisroel) that seems to crazy to be true. Instead of assuming that it may be true how about assume it isn't true unless proven otherwise?
Curiosity made the cat smarter.

Offline Achas Veachas

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4223
  • Total likes: 15
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #418 on: January 15, 2013, 12:04:56 PM »
I wish everyone would read Rabbi Rappaports book in response to Berger.  The Messiah Problem: Berger, the Angel and the Scandal of Reckless Indiscrimination (Ilford 2002)

He has so much solid information and sources in halacha it makes this whole thread a joke.

And he talks about other chassidim that do more extreme things.
To be honest, I tried....
BTW it's been out of print and can not be had for money FWIH
Curiosity made the cat smarter.

Online jj1000

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 10804
  • Total likes: 989
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8015
    • View Profile
  • Location: The value of a forum such as this one is not in that one can post a question and receive an answer, but in that the question has most likely been asked before, and the answer is available to him that will but only use the search function.
  • Programs: 1. Search on google. 2. Search in the right board of DDF with a general word or two. 3. Read the wiki. 4. Read the thread. 5. Ask away.
Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #419 on: January 15, 2013, 12:20:26 PM »
To be honest, I tried....
BTW it's been out of print and can not be had for money FWIH
I know :( it is unfortunate. Just have to know the right people ;) A book like that I wish he just allowed someone to scan it and put it online. (They do sell picture of the Rebbe right when you walk into the lower part of 770 btw.)
See my 5 step program to your left <--

(Real signature under my location)