Vaccine Discussion Master Thread

[S209]

https://fortune.com/well/2022/12/13/covid-unvaccinated-greater-risk-car-crash-traffic-accident-new-study-says-canada-government-records-pfizer-moderna/

An obvious variable omitted from the article is that the demographic perceived to face the highest risk and lowest benefit from the vaccine correlates with the demographic who also get into the most accidents- young men.

[dm123]

An obvious variable omitted from the article is that the demographic perceived to face the highest risk and lowest benefit from the vaccine correlates with the demographic who also get into the most accidents- young men.

I think the study says they adjusted for age no?

The increased traffic risks among unvaccinated individuals extended to diverse subgroups, was similar to the relative risk associated with sleep apnea, and was equal to a 48% increase after adjustment for age, sex, home location, socioeconomic status, and medical diagnoses (95% confidence interval, 40-57; P < 0.001).

https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(22)00822-1/fulltext#%20

[S209]

I think the study says they adjusted for age no?
https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(22)00822-1/fulltext#%20

You are correct, I didn’t click through to the study. However, I was also possibly correct as the 72% figure was not adjusted and after adjusting it goes down to 48%.

[aygart]

An obvious variable omitted from the article is that the demographic perceived to face the highest risk and lowest benefit from the vaccine correlates with the demographic who also get into the most accidents- young men.

I think this is worth a mention here.

This is a very concerning study, the original paper is here https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36470796/

Hard data. Unfortunately.

My question is if we force these people to get vaccinated will it decrease the risk? Is the vaccine that  effective in changing psychological behavior?

These are also hard data.

http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

The real connection between them is speculative. There is a very good chance that those who did not take vaccines were driving much more than those who did not during the Canadian lockdowns and that is a potential alternate explanation among who knows how many others.

They were also forced to drive when unvaccinated were banned from flying or taking a train.

[dm123]

You are correct, I didn’t click through to the study. However, I was also possibly correct as the 72% figure was not adjusted and after adjusting it goes down to 48%.

you were right it did decrease it but still a 48% increase is something.

The authors of the study mentioned most if not all of this no? (maybe not your & avromi7's good points about decreased driving but other factors and correlation causation)

From the study: https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(22)00822-1/fulltext#%20

[aygart]

you were right it did decrease it but still a 48% increase is something.
The authors of the study mentioned most if not all of this no? (maybe not your & avromi7's good points about decreased driving but other factors and correlation causation)

Great that they mention things but they are pretty clearly running with their speculative conclusion. There can be other reasons that weren't mentioned anywhere at all. It can even be scientific coincidence.

[dm123]

Great that they mention things but they are pretty clearly running with their speculative conclusion. There can be other reasons that weren't mentioned anywhere at all. It can even be scientific coincidence.

Perhaps.


I doubt it will but curious if it will have any effect on the insurance industry:

The observed risks might also justify changes to driver insurance policies in the future.

[AsherO]

You are correct, I didn’t click through to the study. However, I was also possibly correct as the 72% figure was not adjusted and after adjusting it goes down to 48%.

A little more adjusting please…

(Didn’t read the article)

[aygart]

Perhaps.


I doubt it will but curious if it will have any effect on the insurance industry:

Am agenda driven speculative piece should not affect the insurance industry.

[CountValentine]

Am agenda driven speculative piece should not affect the insurance industry.

You think they care?
Next we will find out they use credit scores. 

[CountValentine]

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10818-021-09312-0

[CountValentine]

Yes, vaccines still work. Science not politics!!!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/fact-check-belief-covid-19-vaccines-are-not-effective-comes-from-misinterpreted-data/ar-AA15xOE3?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=e421a770e6dd4abb95317d0521119c0b

[mevinyavin]

Yes, vaccines still work. Science not politics!!!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/fact-check-belief-covid-19-vaccines-are-not-effective-comes-from-misinterpreted-data/ar-AA15xOE3?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=e421a770e6dd4abb95317d0521119c0b

Although...
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/364787
You can poke some holes in it. I can think of a few reasons the data is skewed.
I still think vaccines work, mind... but there is always something to complain about.

[imayid2]

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/2151551/birds-of-a-feather-washington-post-joins-nyt-in-its-hatred-for-orthodox-jews.html

[mevinyavin]

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/2151551/birds-of-a-feather-washington-post-joins-nyt-in-its-hatred-for-orthodox-jews.html

Sigh... Very sad.

Actually, I remember a Boston Globe article about the state of following the COVID rules all over the world. This was right after Yom Kippur, 2021. The random picture showed Yidden in Bnei Brak heading to shul for Yom Kippur, and the caption stated that they were flouting the lockdown rules. I guess the writer didn't do his research, because two days before YK, the government relented and allowed minyanim under specific rules. (The people in the picture were actually wearing masks - a chiddush - so there was no indication that the minyan in question was flouting the rules.)

[aygart]

https://nypost.com/2023/02/05/new-yorks-kid-vaccination-collapse-is-a-grim-result-of-expert-covid-misinfo/

[yelped]

https://nypost.com/2023/02/05/new-yorks-kid-vaccination-collapse-is-a-grim-result-of-expert-covid-misinfo/

Looks like someone decided to read DDF. Or DDF is 2 years early to the party.

[imayid2]

https://www.foxnews.com/health/prior-covid-infection-protection-vaccines-new-study

[AsherO]

Looks like someone decided to read DDF. Or DDF is 2 years early to the party.

Vaccine skepticism is more prevalent in the Jewish community than in the broader population, this was true before COVID and is true now, and was reflected on DDF by frum skeptics espousing their skepticism on DDF, but has nothing to do with DDF per se.

[Yehuda57]

Vaccine skepticism is more prevalent in the Jewish community than in the broader population, this was true before COVID and is true now, and was reflected on DDF by frum skeptics espousing their skepticism on DDF, but has nothing to do with DDF per se.

Citation needed.

You're in a bubble where any single anti vax voice sounds really loud. Were caccination rates in frum areas ever below national average? For instance, Crown Heights had a well over 90% vax rate. If you read N'shei Chabad or looked at Facebook mommy groups, you'd probably guess <50%.

Uber liberal communities in wealthy Californian neighborhoods have had much lower vax rates than the national average. Yet they are supposedly the "trust the science" camp while frum people are the skeptics?