Pesach Program Discussion Master Thread

[yfr bachur]

Why'd you pick/make up these 6?

Do you disagree with any of them?

[JMHO]

Do you disagree with any of them?

That these our concepts and ideas that I can/should work on, not necessarily.

That these are the reasons Pesach programs are failing, yes.

[notyettaken]

What's the message?

Not to talk during davening.

[Yehudaa]

Do you disagree with any of them?

Okay, I'll bite. I wasn't going to get involved, but if someone else is asking:

While I don't necessarily disagree with any of the 6 points that OP posted, I do positively despise the self-righteous mussar-y attitude. He's certainly not going to change the mind of anyone who goes to hotels by coming on an anonymous forum and bashing, so I don't see anything l'sheim shamayim here.

My hope is that the attitude is merely a passing stage of immaturity in OP's journey to greatness.

[rbs-g1.5]

Okay, I'll bite. I wasn't going to get involved, but if someone else is asking:

While I don't necessarily disagree with any of the 6 points that OP posted, I do positively despise the self-righteous mussar-y attitude. He's certainly not going to change the mind of anyone who goes to hotels by coming on an anonymous forum and bashing, so I don't see anything l'sheim shamayim here.

My hope is that the attitude is merely a passing stage of immaturity in OP's journey to greatness.

Okay, I'll bite. I wasn't going to get involved, but if someone else is explaining moshe greens modus operandi
While I agree that it sounds like Mussar and most of his point's are valid, I believe Moshe Green isn't trying to change anybody just he likes writing inflamatory comments to rile people up. You can call him a troll but  when other people act similarly (like count valentine ) people seem to be ok with someone who has good points adding spice to "the echo chamber".

[HudZ]

Neexxt...

Chag Kosher V'Sameiach.

[Abebee]

These programs are so expensive. Why can't they figure their stuff out. There are the few that have been successful for many years with recurring families joining, and the rest just come and go

I once spoke to someone that ran programs for years, and its exactly what you wrote. These programs are expensive to run and most of the successful ones went through 2-3 years of losing and building up a name until they became the successful ones they are today.

Now I can't speak for any of these specifically, but I would have to assume that the ones that close last minute are probably due to not filling up. So instead of going ahead with the program at a massive lose "These programs are expensive to run" and built the reputation, they cancel instead.

This goes across the board, we look around and see people with success and we try to company them not realizing the years of blood, sweat & tears prior to the success.

[avromie7]

Maybe that Hashem wants us to:
1) Be Yotzei ViHigadita B'Hidur Rav
2) Stop relying on Kulas and 18 year old Mashgichim who don't know basic Halacha
3) Stop wasting money
4) Stop fressing for 8 days straight
5) Start making Pesach
6) Enjoying the beauty of our own homes, families, and neighborhoods

Many (most?) people at these programs are there because they need to be there, not because they want to be there. For example, many have personal situations that make it very difficult to make pesach.

[Dan]

Many (most?) people at these programs are there because they need to be there, not because they want to be there. For example, many have personal situations that make it very difficult to make pesach.

That, or they're working there, or grandparents have the means to be able to spend Pesach with all of the kids and grandkids in one place covers 98% of the program.

[yfr bachur]

Many (most?) people at these programs are there because they need to be there, not because they want to be there. For example, many have personal situations that make it very difficult to make pesach.

That, or they're working there, or grandparents have the means to be able to spend Pesach with all of the kids and grandkids in one place covers 98% of the program.

Not trying to troll.
I've never been to a pesach program in a hotel ever, so I have no personal experience and or knowledge (though as a young women my wife went along with a family she was close to to help with their kids - to what I presume was an upper upper class program based on who the family is)

Based on some of the advertisements I've seen I find it very hard to believe that that is the primary client base/target audience of many programs... though it may be true for some.
And honestly, I doubt anyone (even @Moshe Green !) criticising pesach programs mean the ones who's primary target is people who can not make pesach, so mles briera are going to a hotel or one that's draw is that it is a relatively affordable way of putting up all your kids within walking distance to your seder...

[ushdadude]

Not trying to troll.
I've never been to a pesach program in a hotel ever, so I have no personal experience and or knowledge (though as a young women my wife went along with a family she was close to to help with their kids - to what I presume was an upper upper class program based on who the family is)

Based on some of the advertisements I've seen I find it very hard to believe that that is the primary client base/target audience of many programs... though it may be true for some.
And honestly, I doubt anyone (even @Moshe Green !) criticising pesach programs mean the ones who's primary target is people who can not make pesach, so mles briera are going to a hotel or one that's draw is that it is a relatively affordable way of putting up all your kids within walking distance to your seder...

full stop

[avromie7]

Not trying to troll.
I've never been to a pesach program in a hotel ever, so I have no personal experience and or knowledge (though as a young women my wife went along with a family she was close to to help with their kids - to what I presume was an upper upper class program based on who the family is)

Based on some of the advertisements I've seen I find it very hard to believe that that is the primary client base/target audience of many programs... though it may be true for some.
And honestly, I doubt anyone (even @Moshe Green !) criticising pesach programs mean the ones who's primary target is people who can not make pesach, so mles briera are going to a hotel or one that's draw is that it is a relatively affordable way of putting up all your kids within walking distance to your seder...

You can't use advertisements as a means of gauging the target clientele.

[PlatinumGuy]

5) Start making Pesach

In my Torah, Oneg Yom Tov is a Mitzvah, 'Making Pesach' is not

People who haven't been to a program without it having a significant impact on their financial condition cannot accurately relate to the experience and decision process, as Chazal said -  אל תדון את חברך עד שתגיע למקומו

[whacked1]

Many (most?) people at these programs are there because they need to be there, not because they want to be there. For example, many have personal situations that make it very difficult to make pesach.

This +100!

I know some people that literally have no where to go, or people to be with, and the programs keep them sane.

[yfr bachur]

You can't use advertisements as a means of gauging the target clientele.

So advertising Shwekey, ect... in an exotic location with over the top gourmet food... = target is some old hungarian bubby whos too old to make pesach herself??? Or a family with medical issues?

As I said, I'm an outsider here. I dont know. It just doesnt seem believeable to me.
I'm not saying that these people dont exist, or that they arent a significant percentage of attendees - I myself know people who go - for various valid reasons.
I just find using them as THE defence of the ENTIRE industry from any sort of criticism to (possibly) be intelectualy dishonest...

[jye]

So advertising Shwekey, ect... in an exotic location with over the top gourmet food... = target is some old hungarian bubby whos too old to make pesach herself??? Or a family with medical issues?

As I said, I'm an outsider here. I dont know. It just doesnt seem believeable to me.
I'm not saying that these people dont exist, or that they arent a significant percentage of attendees - I myself know people who go - for various valid reasons.
I just find using them as THE defence of the ENTIRE industry from any sort of criticism to (possibly) be intelectualy dishonest...

From what I see there are two types of programs. There are the tri-state area “need to get away for pesach” programs, and then there are the exotic locale over-the-top food and entertainment programs. It’s largely a very different clientele.

[AsherO]

Why'd you pick/make up these 6?

Maybe Hashem picked them

[JMHO]

Maybe Hashem picked them

Check every seventeenth letter in last weeks Haftorah, it's there too !

[AsherO]

or grandparents have the means to be able to spend Pesach with all of the kids and grandkids in one place covers 98% of the program.

If the grandkids all get to experience the Seder with the grandparents this is quite important IMHO

[Dan]

From what I see there are two types of programs. There are the tri-state area “need to get away for pesach” programs, and then there are the exotic locale over-the-top food and entertainment programs. It’s largely a very different clientele.

Not really. If the grandparents have the means and want to be with all the grandkids, they can still pick a program by the amenities and food offered.