All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions

[chbochur]

Yes. The meaning of b'farhesia.

With all due respect to the research you put into this very sophisticated answer. This is not the Ben Shapiro show where if it's in the name it's good enough.
Halacha doesn't work that way. As an example (not sure what your standards are) according to your theory there should be no such thing as cholov stam (a term coined in the 20th century)  There should be cholov yisroel (as explained in shu"a) and non kosher milk. The name clearly says it.

Coming back to the halacha we are discussing, we need to go to the source of considering someone that is mechalel shabbos b'farhesia a goy/mumar lehachis. If you say (as most poskim) it's from the possuk v'nikdasty b'soch bnei yisroel then it would have to be in front of 10 men in a way of them standing 'together' for a minyan.

Regardless there are so many variables in such a situation for instance the m"b writes that even if he does it in front of 10 people but would be embarrassed to do it in front of a great person it is still considered in private and he would not be considered a goy/mumar lehachis.

Pls don't go and write people off of yidishkeit just on a definition of a word.

[yitzgar]

With all due respect to the research you put into this very sophisticated answer. This is not the Ben Shapiro show where if it's in the name it's good enough.
Halacha doesn't work that way. As an example (not sure what your standards are) according to your theory there should be no such thing as cholov stam (a term coined in the 20th century)  There should be cholov yisroel (as explained in shu"a) and non kosher milk. The name clearly says it.

Coming back to the halacha we are discussing, we need to go to the source of considering someone that is mechalel shabbos b'farhesia a goy/mumar lehachis. If you say (as most poskim) it's from the possuk v'nikdasty b'soch bnei yisroel then it would have to be in front of 10 men in a way of them standing 'together' for a minyan.

Regardless there are so many variables in such a situation for instance the m"b writes that even if he does it in front of 10 people but would be embarrassed to do it in front of a great person it is still considered in private and he would not be considered a goy/mumar lehachis.

Pls don't go and write people off of yidishkeit just on a definition of a word.

I agree that obviously you need to know what is considered befarhesia based on the sugya, but just pointing out that no one is writing anyone off of yiddishkeit. It's just a practical status with regard to counting for a minyan. Also I don't think this would necessarily make someone a mumar lehachis, could be letayavon and would be the same practical difference

[chbochur]

I agree that obviously you need to know what is considered befarhesia based on the sugya, but just pointing out that no one is writing anyone off of yiddishkeit. It's just a practical status with regard to counting for a minyan. Also I don't think this would necessarily make someone a mumar lehachis, could be letayavon and would be the same practical difference

You're saying a mumar l'teiovon is not counted for a minyan?

[yitzgar]

You're saying a mumar l'teiovon is not counted for a minyan?

That is my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong

[chinagel]

With all due respect to the research you put into this very sophisticated answer. This is not the Ben Shapiro show where if it's in the name it's good enough.
Halacha doesn't work that way. As an example (not sure what your standards are) according to your theory there should be no such thing as cholov stam (a term coined in the 20th century)  There should be cholov yisroel (as explained in shu"a) and non kosher milk. The name clearly says it.

Coming back to the halacha we are discussing, we need to go to the source of considering someone that is mechalel shabbos b'farhesia a goy/mumar lehachis. If you say (as most poskim) it's from the possuk v'nikdasty b'soch bnei yisroel then it would have to be in front of 10 men in a way of them standing 'together' for a minyan.

Regardless there are so many variables in such a situation for instance the m"b writes that even if he does it in front of 10 people but would be embarrassed to do it in front of a great person it is still considered in private and he would not be considered a goy/mumar lehachis.

Pls don't go and write people off of yidishkeit just on a definition of a word.

I stand corrected. Not sure where you got the part about writing people off of yiddishkeit. The question was if they count for minyan.

[chbochur]

That is my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong

Well it depends what the aveiroh is. For example if he is Mechalel shabbos leteiovon he's considered someone that is kofer b'maasei breishis. However in our case you can't say that as he is driving to shul and by doing so he is saying the exact opposite (he's being modeh in masei breishis).
But most other aveiros leteiovon (aside from avodah zoroh) would not make someone possul for a minyan.

[chbochur]

I stand corrected. Not sure where you got the part about writing people off of yiddishkeit. The question was if they count for minyan.

Sorry my bad .
it's just trauma I have from a boy I met and when calling his litvish father about the situation to see what we could do he told me "he's mechalel shabbos b'farhesia, you should not be talking to him"
So for some reason I assumed that's the way they treat all such cases. But I'm happy to stand corrected and take that back.

[yelped]

Sevaras are not halacha. Please don't "pasken" if you don't have a halachik (not a pilpul sefer) source.

[chbochur]

Sevaras are not halacha. Please don't "pasken" if you don't have a halachik (not a pilpul sefer) source.

Not sure if this is directed to me. But in case it is, firstly I'm not giving a psak. Secondly if you'd like I can (try to) send a source for anything I mentioned.

[chinagel]

Well it depends what the aveiroh is. For example if he is Mechalel shabbos leteiovon he's considered someone that is kofer b'maasei breishis. However in our case you can't say that as he is driving to shul and by doing so he is saying the exact opposite (he's being modeh in masei breishis).

Very iffy logic.

Sevaras are not halacha. Please don't "pasken" if you don't have a halachik (not a pilpul sefer) source.

Nobody's paskening overhere. Just discussing.

[aygart]

However in our case you can't say that as he is driving to shul and by doing so he is saying the exact opposite (he's being modeh in masei breishis).

Or he enjoys the kiddush.

[aygart]

So for some reason I assumed that's the way they treat all such cases.

Who is the "they" and why are you assuming that based on some random father?

[aygart]

Regardless there are so many variables in such a situation for instance the m"b writes that even if he does it in front of 10 people but would be embarrassed to do it in front of a great person it is still considered in private and he would not be considered a goy/mumar lehachis.

Such cases are mentioned in the gemara too.

[chbochur]

Who is the "they" and why are you assuming that based on some random father?

המבין יבין and I'll leave it at that

[aygart]

המבין יבין and I'll leave it at that

I have a feeling I understand all too well.

[yitzgar]

Well it depends what the aveiroh is. For example if he is Mechalel shabbos leteiovon he's considered someone that is kofer b'maasei breishis. However in our case you can't say that as he is driving to shul and by doing so he is saying the exact opposite (he's being modeh in masei breishis).
But most other aveiros leteiovon (aside from avodah zoroh) would not make someone possul for a minyan.

We are talking about shabbos. I highly doubt anyone would pasken to count him for a minyan based on that sevara

[chbochur]

We are talking about shabbos. I highly doubt anyone would pasken to count him for a minyan based on that sevara

See igros moshe cheilek aleph siman 33

[yelped]

Not sure if this is directed to me. But in case it is, firstly I'm not giving a psak. Secondly if you'd like I can (try to) send a source for anything I mentioned.

I wasn't referring to you.

Nobody's paskening overhere. Just discussing.

Definitely sounded like it. I would put a qualifier before your sevaras. (No offense to you or the sevara.)

B'farhesia is not specifically in shul. If he drove to shul, that itself is b'farhesia.

[PlatinumGuy]

Did nobody mention the Chazon Ish who holds there is no such thing as Mumar Lehachis/Apikores etc nowadays, and anybody with a Jewish mother can be counted for a minyan?

יורה דעה הלכות שחיטה - סימן ב סעיף כח



That being said, R Elyashiv and others argued with him.

[chinagel]

Did nobody mention the Chazon Ish who holds there is no such thing as Mumar Lehachis/Apikores etc nowadays, and anybody with a Jewish mother can be counted for a minyan?

יורה דעה הלכות שחיטה - סימן ב סעיף כח



That being said, R Elyashiv and others argued with him.

Where do you see that? Just that the vast majority of non-observant are not, not that there's no such thing.
Besides, the question was about a mechalel shabbos iinm.